18 



Now, which reminds me, what are you going to tell the Sitka 

 sales that were canceled by the Forest Service? Is that ever going 

 to be put up again? 



Mr. Janik. Those sales, sir, have been retrofitted and offered up 

 to the independent operators. And some of that buy has also gone 

 to Ketchikan Pulp Company. 



The Chairman. But without the pulp mill, independent operators 

 cannot exist. 



Mr. Janik. We have always acknowledged the importance of a 

 secondary facility in Southeast Alaska. 



The Chairman. That is where the pulp 



Mr. Janik. That is something — it could be the existing pulp mill. 

 Yes, sir. 



The Chairman. No, what I am 



Mr. Janik. And we recognize that importance, the Ketchikan 

 Pulp Company. 



The Chairman. We agree it supports jobs. You know, I can take 

 37 people and ship all the timber that is going to be cut under 297 

 base board feet. I could ship that with 37 people and ship it to 

 Japan. That is not a value-added. Or I could ship it to the North- 

 west, which they have lost it because of the spotted owl. I can do 

 that, but that isn't board feet. 



Mr. Miller. If the gentleman would yield one second, I think 

 maybe we are establishing some parameters. 



The Chairman. They didn't deny a ten-year contract with Sea 

 Alaska. That is one thing I didn't understand. 



Mr. Miller. You know, when we did the negotiations on this for- 

 est and we were living in the midst of the storm that was brewing 

 around the administration of this forest under the contract, the 

 reason those negotiations worked was because we sort of rejected 

 the extremes. You can keep talking about people who want to kill 

 this town or what have you, but the history of these negotiations 

 and our participation is that we have rejected that notion. 



The Chairman. You and I have a 



Mr. Miller. And that is how you got the Tongass reform, but I 

 don't — I am not prepared to accept that you have got to gut the 

 Tongass reform to get at viable profits on this forest that is both 

 sustainable and economically viable to the mill. 



The Chairman. And you can 



Mr. Miller. And I haven't seen the show-me yet that that is the 

 case. And that is all I point out, because, you know, you and I have 

 been around this both privately and publicly, that I believe that the 

 Reform Act also didn't apply to the commitment that we would pro- 

 vide the timber. That was the dual part of this arrangement. Oth- 

 erwise, we could have just gone off and canceled the contracts or 

 had you had the most votes, whatever, you could have just said we 

 want to do business the way we were doing it in 1950. That didn't 

 survive the Congressional process. 



This was a deliberate process and this was an intentional deci- 

 sion that the practices would be different and with the full knowl- 

 edge that in many instances they would be more extensive but they 

 would hopefully lead to this evaluation process and we would deter- 

 mine what in fact this would sustain. 



