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statement was that the Secretary has the full intent to comply with 

 the existing contract over the, you know, the remaining term of 

 that contract. And your figures suggest that you are in compliance 

 with that contract, but representatives of the other side — I hope I 

 am framing this correctly. Obviously somebody can correct me in 

 later panels. That is that it is really not happening because you are 

 making it more difficult or more expensive to get the timber, your 

 requirements on roads and other requirements — I don't know if I 

 could enumerate, but roads seem to stand out as strong — that in 

 fact you are simply making it impossible to extract and to bid on 

 these sales, so the actual number is below that. How do you re- 

 spond to that? I hope I've framed it. 



Mr. Janik. I will attempt to do that. And if I may, sir, I may ask 

 Brad Powell, the forest supervisor, to elaborate further. But as I 

 understand what went on during the Tongass Timber Reform Act 

 with regard to the changes that occurred there, it was in fact to 

 look at those long-term contracts, two existing at that time, and 

 make that situation more competitive with the independent opera- 

 tor kind of situation. So therefore, if one does ask if it is more dif- 

 ficult or costly for the folks involved in the long-term contract to 

 operate their timber program, I would say yes, as compared to 

 prior to TTRA. 



Mr. Miller. Is there any way to quantify what that has meant? 



Mr. Janik. I think we have some stumpage rate figures and 

 those kinds of things which do identify that. For instance, and 

 please help me here. Brad or Fred, prior to TTRA, I believe, the 

 rates were about two to two and a half dollars a thousand board 

 feet. Now Ketchikan Pulp, I believe, is paying closer to about $48 

 per thousand board feet. Is that a correct comparison? 



Mr. Miller. That was the parenthetically accurate. It was also 

 the intent of the legislation. 



Mr. Janik. As I understood it, yes. 



Mr. Miller. Widespread concern in the Congress that this re- 

 source was simply being essentially given away. 



Mr. Janik. And the further comparison then is I believe that $48, 

 as we calculate the rates, is attempting to make those rates com- 

 parable to what our independent operators would be looking at in 

 terms of bid offerings. Is that also correct? 



Mr. Miller. And that is why and how. You do comparable bids 

 or sales to arrive at that? 



Mr. Janik. May I defer that to Mr. Walk? 



Mr. Miller. Sure. 



Mr. Janik. Fred, would you please take that question. 



Mr. Walk. Congressman 



Mr. Allard. Fred, would you identify your name for the record, 

 please. 



Mr. Walk. My name is Fred Walk. I am the Director of Forest 

 Management in the Alaska Region. The process that was imple- 

 mented as part of the Tongass Timber Reform Act to meet the re- 

 quirement that prices paid by the long-term contract holders be 

 comparable to the independent purchasers 



Mr. Miller. That is the law. 



Mr. Walk. Pardon me? 



Mr. Miller. That is the law, you are saying? 



