businesses. I can read the reports of what is happening. We are los- 

 ing the young society in Southeast Alaska, and that is not healthy. 



Now the company no doubt, they will walk away and gain, 

 through the courts at your cost and my cost, the taxpayers, a tre- 

 mendous amount of money, but that doesn't keep the town viable 

 and the people employed, and that is our main goal here. 



I wish people would understand one thing. If there was a short- 

 age of trees, I would be the first one to say shut it down, but you 

 and I know that there is not a shortage of trees. There is a tremen- 

 dous abundance of trees in every forest; I don't have to tell you 

 this. 



The gentleman from Oregon. 



Mr. COOLEY. I have no comments. 



The Chairman. Anybody else? We should get on. Mr. Janik has 

 an important appointment. 



Mr. CooLEY. I have no comments at this time, Mr. Chair. I just 

 wondered if we were going to put the witnesses under oath. 



The Chairman. I had not planned on doing that. It doesn't do a 

 whole lot of good. 



Mr. CoOLEY. It sure does. When you review it after one makes 

 a statement here and at another hearing one turns around and 

 makes another statement 



The Chairman. I understand, and I know what this is pointed 

 at, but my thought at this time is we will not do that unless the 

 gentleman from California has no objection. 



Mr. Miller. Pardon? 



The Chairman. Do you have any objections? 



Mr. Miller. To what? 



The Chairman. To putting them under oath. 



Mr. Miller. I do have objection, because 



The Chairman. Nothing too violently or I will do it. 



Mr. Miller. No, you are entitled. They are just entitled to notice 

 prior to the hearing that that would be the situation. I think that 

 would be unfair to the witnesses. 



The Chairman. I understand that. 



Mr. Cooley. Mr. Chair, please, does that imply that they may 

 have not prepared to tell the truth when they got ready? 



The Chairman. I would be 



Mr. Miller. No, that same kind of notice that you would request 

 if you were going to be put under oath or any other situation like 

 that. 



The Chairman. Well, I 



Mr. Miller. People are entitled to notice in this society. 



The Chairman. Well, the one thing about it, I have notified them 

 before, everybody from this Administration, through this committee 

 as I have said at times I will put them under oath. I just want you 

 to know that. 



My first two witnesses are Mr. Lyons, the Under Secretary, and 

 Mr. Janik, Regional Forester. And I would definitely like to thank 

 Mr. Phil Janik for being here. I mean, I have had two hearings in 

 the State of Alaska, but unfortunately one time he had a heart 

 problem. The second time it may have been a heart problem, too. 

 I am not exactly sure what it was, but it is nice to see him in 

 Washington. 



