elk in the high country. It was about October and we were way up in 

 a basin and here's 20 sheep and the sheep were obviously abandoned 

 because the main herd was down on the desert." And Don continued 

 "Well, what do you suppose that sheep man attributed those loss of 20 

 sheep to? Is he going to say 'heck, we lost them up there?' I don't 

 think so. I think he is going to say it probably was a coyote loss." 



As a wildlife biologist with the BLM, I have many times asked 

 sheep men who have come in the office to fill out their damage reports, 

 to take me out and show me these dead sheep and not once they ever 

 would. I even voluntered to go out on my own time on weekends to see 

 some of these sheep. And know I know a lot of them, believe me, I 

 know that coyotes kill sheep. I've got a Fish and Wildlife Service book 

 here and it tells about the Cook ranch in Montana where coyotes are 

 killing 20 percent of the sheep every year, but there are still some 

 credibility problems because of cases like that. 



I'd like to wrap this up and say coyotes are basically a western 

 problem. And I think many of us are really indignant that easterners 

 have picked up on the coyote thing. I read the draft statement of the 

 Fish and Wildlife Service and most of the letters in there were from 

 people in New Jersey and Connecticut saying how great coyotes were 

 and we should leave them alone. I think we are resentful that 

 easterners are sticking their noses in our business. And by the way, 

 I do consider myself a westerner, although I was born in New York. A 

 Texan told me something here about two months ago which is kind of 

 humorous. He said, "If coyotes lived in big cities and ate hubcaps off 

 Mercedes and Porches there wouldn't be any more problem." Another 

 Texan who works for the Game and Fish and Parks Division, whatever 

 it is, told me people have nothing to do these days. He says, "They 

 need a cause in life. If they had 15 or 20 cows to milk each morning 

 they wouldn't need to go out looking for an involvement. That's the 

 problem with today's society. 



Finally, here is an analogy. A sheep man told me "You know, 

 let's put it this way. We're just trying to protect ourselves. When 

 mice get in your kitchen, you kill them because they destroy your 

 property. No one thinks anything about mice who raid our pantries 

 and whatever. That's the same as coyotes." And I say thats fine, I 

 agree. Let's kill the mice in the kitchen and the house when we can, 

 but let's not kill every mouse in the pasture. I don't know what the 

 answers are and I wish I knew and I'm was just trying to point out 

 some of the problems. Thank you. 



BART Q'GARA : Thank you Jim. Would anyone on the floor like to 



question anyone in the panel? Get a little discussion going? The 

 gentleman in the back. 



QUESTION : Mr. Zumbo, you were talking about aerial hunting and 



we don't want there to be any mixup with aerial gunning by government 

 employees and also would you explain how Mr. Dick Randall's credibility 

 was damaged at the recent meetings in Washington on the bobcats? 



