trapper was out there with the helecopter every day and so forth and 

 wasn't accomplishing anything. So he sold all his lambs and brought 

 his' ewes into the corral. So, I figured here's the place to work with 

 KoffTondorick dogs next year. So I went to him and said "Hey look, 

 we'll pay for your lambs next year, don't kill a coyote. Leave 

 everything alone and as soon as you get some kills we'll send some 

 people out and document the levels and then we'll come in with some 

 dogs and see if we can stop it." The next year he never lost a lamb. 

 And I went out there and watched the darned coyotes run around in 

 the sheep pastures and so forth. So I think this has led to a lot of 

 the misunderstanding between stockmen and environmentalists. I've 

 heard more people from the Defenders or some other organization say, 

 "Hey, here's a rancher over here doing such and such with his sheep. 

 He isn't having any problem. Those people that are getting a bunch of 

 sheep killed don't know how to handle their livestock. That's the big 

 problem and if you don't think that will make a rancher mad that knows 

 he's handling them just like the guy is down there that isn't having 

 any problems, try it sometime. 



When 1080 was used in the West I have no doubt that there were 

 abuses. It was set up on a very strict basis and no bait was supposed 

 to go out before hunting season was over in the fall, and after 

 freezeup and hibernating animals were in. There was not supposed to 

 be more than one bait to a township. Everything was to be brought in 

 and burnt before spring breakup. If that had been followed all the 

 way, there should have been no problems. Now there were problems, 

 there's no doubt about it. I'd like to say this, I believe, and I can't 

 prove it, but a lot of things that were done with strychnine slopped 

 over on to 1080. It got blamed for lots of poison and lots of deaths 

 that were done with strychnine, which the rancher or anybody else 

 could buy over the counter and lace a carcass with and throw it out 

 there and so forth. And a lot of things people knew about 1080 caused 

 problems. Jim says 1080 is not selective, and well, I won't agree with 

 you Jim. It's selective but it's very toxic and you can kill things like 

 eagles and so forth, but you've got to really load them down. So it's 

 fairly selective for canines where something like the strychnine was not 

 as it was easy to kill raptors with strychnine. I've had dozens of 

 raptors brought into the unit by people wanting to know what killed 

 them and about the only things I've ever got out in poisons was DDT 

 residues and strychnine. I've never got anything on 1080 out. Of 

 course, 1080 is very hard to identify so I may have missed some of 

 those. 



I'd like to say one other thing on this thing. Like Jim was talking 

 about the getters, set around a dam or something in an illegal 

 situation. This is probably more apt to happen if you don't have an 

 effective, good predator control program than if you do. If the 

 rancher isn't getting any help out there he's going to help himself and 

 a lot of times it's going to be lot worse than something else. 



I'm going to tell one quick little story here of something that 

 happened to me. Are there any Texans here? Good. It's just as well. 

 I got called down to Texas a couple of years ago to look at a bunch of 



