28 



committed as some of us who were members of this committee or 

 this Senate at the time these arrangements were made, but you 

 have made reference, senator, to two different kinds of agreements. 



One is the agreement that was made in legislation that was a 

 compromise forged that people in Alaska relied upon, and I think 

 had a right to rely upon, in terms of the resource allocations of 

 which ANILCA was the result. The other is the commitments 

 made in 50-year contracts to provide the base for an investment 

 made by private parties in reliance upon what government would 

 do. 



I am extremely concerned on both ends of that. If government 

 cannot be viewed as a reliable contracting partner, how in the 

 world can we conduct business? I am struck by the fact that having 

 sat through much of that period of time to which you refer, know- 

 ing what went into the compromise and the balances, that people 

 who seek to reform the agreement now are simply moving the 

 boundaries in one direction, if you will, on an agreement. 



There was a balance, as I recall. It was a very hard and tough 

 fight, and the Tongass was one of the last things resolved in that 

 entire matter, as I recall. Is that not correct? 



Senator Stevens. It was the last one, yes, and involved not just 

 the Tongass but also the issue of the Courts Hill, but the overall 

 Tongass area was the last in the compromise that led to the pas- 

 sage 



Senator McClure. If you look at the map of Alaska, of course, 

 the Tongass area is very large, but compared to the rest of Alaska 

 it is a smaller portion. We had a lot of different discussions about 

 all the rest of the area of Alaska and the resources that are con- 

 tained within it, and how they should be resolved. Tongass was last 

 not because it was least but because, perhaps, it was toughest. 



I cannot help remembering not just the contracts that were 

 made but the lives that will be affected. How many jobs are there 

 in Southeast Alaska, total? 



Senator Stevens. There are around 10,000 jobs that are directly 

 or indirectly related to this activity. I do not have that figure for 

 the total industrial base down there available. Do you have it, 

 Frank? 



Senator Murkowski. There are currently about 3,400 jobs direct- 

 ly associated with the logging industry and the pulp mills in South- 

 eastern Alaska. 



Senator McClure. Out of the total employment in Southeast 

 Alaska. Double that? 



Senator Murkowski. One third of the total. 



Senator McClure. What you have in Southeast Alaska is totally 

 natural resource-based, is it not? Fisheries, tourism, recreation, 

 timber, mining? 



Senator Stevens. Yes, that is correct. 



Senator McClure. There would not be a handful of jobs outside 

 of that, not even government jobs, if it were not for those re- 

 sources. So you are talking about people. You are talking about 

 communities. You are talking about people who made their own 

 plans, built their own lives, built their own communities, made 

 their own investments, based upon a secure arrangement in 50- 



