28 



and to provide for public safety in the use of the national forests 

 and the economic loss. This is a true emergency of vast magnitude. 

 It is not a matter of if a fire will occur, but how extensive the dam- 

 age will be when the fire does occur. Through the timber sale proc- 

 ess the hazard and risk can be reduced." 



Do you trust the judgment of those people that are your super- 

 visors out in the forests? 



Under Secretary LYONS. Well I believe you're reading from Bar- 

 bara Holder, the letter that Barbara Holder wrote, and I would tell 

 you that I have a great deal of respect for Ms. Holder. She is an 

 outstanding Supervisor. 



Mr. Herger. And I agree. Now this is a letter actually from Mar- 

 tha Kattele. 



Under Secretary Lyons. Oh, it's Martha's letter. 



Mr. HERGER. They're both outstanding Supervisors. That's all 

 right, they're forests are right next to each other, and I'm sure you 

 probably received a similar letter, and as a matter of fact I know 

 you have from her. I don't happen to have it in front of me, her 

 letter. 



Under Secretary LYONS. Yes. 



Mr. Herger. Do you feel there is a true emergency? Just how 

 long is the Administration, and you said how we need to work with 

 them, just how long are we going to take to look at something that 

 we see pictures of? Maybe you haven't seen these. How much anal- 

 ysis does it take in looking at the pictures that we have here to 

 come to a conclusion? 



Under Secretary Lyons. Well I don't know that it takes a great 

 deal of analysis, but we've asked that the package of sales under 

 consideration for exemption from the Secretary's directive be pre- 

 pared and reviewed, and it's being reviewed right now. I don't 

 think it's a matter of months, Mr. Herger, I think it's just a matter 

 of days. 



Mr. Herger. Well actually is has been nearly two months that 

 she has been waiting. 



Mr. Thomas, what is your thought on this. Should she be waiting 

 two months on this? She made this request two months ago on 

 whether she could proceed with this treatment. 



You say Washington is planning on responding in the next couple 

 of days now? 



Under Secretary Lyons. That's right. 



Mr. Herger. Well thank you. I think again that this is shameful 

 and it's outrageous that we have a situation like this. By your own 

 testimony evidently you recognized the situation and it's not the 

 case that you're not aware of what's taking place in our forests, but 

 yet the Administration through Secretary Dan Glickman and 

 through yourself and through evidently I presume the — well at 

 least through your directives — are preventing us from going out 

 and removing this type of emergency, and to quote again your Su- 

 pervisor, it's not if a fire, but it's just when it happens. I think it's 

 disgraceful, Mr. Lyons. 



Under Secretary Lyons. Well, Mr. Herger, if I could respond. I 

 think it's rather shameful to characterize the salvage program as 

 if this were the typical situation, which you know it is in fact not. 

 In fact, 90 percent of the salvage program in Region V under the 



