25 



Under Secretary Lyons. The C-130's work very well and have 

 been a very effective tool. 



Mrs. Chenoweth. Well our Idaho National Guard has some C- 

 130's stationed at the base there in Gowand Field. Why can't you 

 use the National Guard C-130's? 



Under Secretary LYONS. Why don't I left Mary Jo answer that 

 question. 



Mrs. Chenoweth. All right. 



Ms. Lavin. We have used very effectively National Guard air- 

 craft, the C-130's, but they have been modified with what we call 

 MAFFs, which are portable tanks that will allow them to effec- 

 tively drop retardant or water. That is a very effective program 

 with the National Guard. We use it in other States. Now I'm get- 

 ting into other needs that we have to update the MAFF's equip- 

 ment, and we would be very happy to look at that. That will take 

 additional funding, and we are looking at the air tankers, and then 

 we would be very happy to look at the MAFFs and look at how we 

 could equip those in Idaho with the portable tanks that will make 

 them even more effective. The C-130's have to be modified before 

 they can be used for fire activities, but the MAFFs is an effective 

 way to modify them and allow the National Guard still to use them 

 in National Guard activities. It is a very good point. 



Under Secretary LYONS. If I could, I just want to clarify one 

 thing because we use C-130's, but we also use P-3s. I don't know 

 what the Idaho National Guard has available, but certainly, as 

 Mary Jo indicated, we're anxious to get the support and the assist- 

 ance. 



Chief Thomas. Could I make one more comment on the Air Na- 

 tional Guard. They're a standby reserve force. The military really 

 doesn't like those aircraft equipped to fight fires on a routine basis. 

 They will help us when we need help, but we also can't activate 

 those tankers under contract until we've exhausted the contract 

 tankers. 



Mrs. Chenoweth. I would like to work with you in the future 

 on that to see if we can expedite some of that because we are ask- 

 ing for more C-130's in there. 



Mr. Lyons, and I see my time is up, Mr. Chairman, but I wonder 

 if for the Committee we might find out how the money has been 

 used with regards to that section under pre-fire suppression, $270 

 million that we've allocated to the Forest Service for that purpose. 



Could we have a breakdown of how the money has been spent 

 on pre-fire suppression? 



Under Secretary LYONS. Certainly. 



Ms. Lavin. Yes, we do, and we could provide that to you if you 

 would want. Let me just speak in general. 



Mr. Chairman, is it all right to answer? 



Chairman Hansen. Go ahead. 



Ms. Lavin. All right. In general the presuppression dollars, and 

 we were funded for $24.5 million in this year for prescribed fire, 

 and additional dollars for the total presuppression effort. They in- 

 clude prescribed fire activities and fuels management as well. They 

 include training, the prepositioning of crews and equipment in 

 order to be ready for initial attack. We would be happy to break 

 that down though. 



