10 



the forests, and whatever it may be, killed out the pine beetle, and 

 now all we've got is dead, dead forests all over the West. 



Now also because of environmental problems Kaibab Industries 

 is pretty well gone as is Escalante Sawmills. So now after they fi- 

 nally defeated that lawsuit which took 16 months they're taking 

 the timber out with helicopters. They tell me the cost of that is 

 $500 an hour. And then they're taking it to these trucks and 

 they're moving it to Montana and to California to mill these logs 

 when there is a perfectly good mill just 30 miles away. So as a re- 

 sult of that we've got dead forests all over America, and people ask 

 the question why do we have fires? 



Now in my last two trips to Southern Utah I was stopped on I- 

 15 because there were fires on both sides. A couple of places we 

 went through it was so dense I was worried about a traffic accident 

 because the smoke was so dense right on Interstate 15 through 

 Utah. 



As my forester friends tell me out there, the fire load has never 

 been so heavy. I find this extremely disturbing, and I think people 

 of the West find it very disturbing. We sent a letter to Secretary 

 Glickman signed September 6th, 1996 where we pointed out that 

 more than 5.6 million acres of our public land has been burned by 

 forest fires at a cost of $330 million per month to fight these forest 

 fires. 



I can't understand this procedure. I'm worried about it, and we're 

 very concerned. 



Do you want to comment on any of those statements I've made, 

 either one of you? 



Mr. Cornell. There is ample evidence to support that in a lot 

 of instances. There are current examples that could be shown rath- 

 er readily. These pictures just show one, but in this same area 

 there are other situations where there was timber salvaged and 

 fire introduced after that have survived very well in this current 

 onslaught. 



The other thing that it does, as you pointed out, is it really im- 

 pacts the communities, you know, the kind of things that occur 

 there. For example, it cost about $475 an acre this year to fight 

 some of the fires in Central California, and a lot of that cost comes, 

 for example, from the use of aircraft, particularly where you have 

 high values to protect. And probably 40 percent of the cost to fight 

 a fire comes from helicopters, air tankers and so forth. Then you 

 have personnel and all that. 



An alternative to that would be to treat those stands and remove 

 some of the material. You know, for $150 an acre you can probably 

 prepare, sell and administer the kind of timber sales that would re- 

 move the fuels and prepare those stands for reintroduction of fire. 

 But on top of that then you'll probably get some value returned. So 

 the contribution of the Federal Government is going to be reduced 

 dramatically, and you're going to take the necessary steps then to 

 help restore the economic viability to some of those communities 

 that have really been hit hard by the inability to find a resource 

 to process. 



The reduction in the amount of resources available in many cases 

 is a decision. It's not a consequence of some other economic shift. 



