48 



Mr. MacDonald. I honestly feel that the regulations that were 

 designed in the Northeast were very effective, and they work well 

 in reference to all aspects about how to approach the whales, the 

 directions, not to box them in, and the time elements of being adja- 

 cent to a whale. And I honestly do not feel anything else needs to 

 be done, until further research indicates otherwise. Then we would 

 certainly support it. 



Senator Kerry. Let me turn to the larger question here, if I can 

 for a moment. And if you want to chime in, Mr. MacDonald, at any 

 time, just let me know. 



There are two very opposing views, and we have known this for 

 some time. There are those in the country who assert that we 

 should not be disturbing the process. We do not need to any more. 

 At one point, it has been asserted, this was the best means of 

 learning because you did not have the video capacity and the inter- 

 active capacity we have today. Now, however, we do not need to 

 keep licensing facilities, and we certainly do not need to increase 

 the take. You could have teaching classrooms that come right out 

 of existing facilities and reach students in high schools, colleges, 

 universities, and so forth. 



Ultimately, because of the distribution of the existing centers in 

 the country, ranging from Hawaii to San Diego, the west coast to 

 the east coast, and so forth, geographically, you are pretty well cov- 

 ered now. What do you say to the argument that there really is a 

 disruption to an animal that is accustomed to ranging from 200 

 feet below the sea to the surface and to frolicking with family, and 

 interrelating. There is a fundamental transition, and while it may 

 not think quite as we do, that transition is still highly disruptive 

 and possibly even cruel? 



What is your response to that, Mr. Prescott? 



Mr. Prescott. I think you have wrapped in the big picture all 

 of the issues that are before us. I would like to respond by saying 

 that as we sit here, there are many things that we do agree upon. 

 In the particular case, you use the term "cruelty," and perhaps I 

 can bear on that for a moment. 



I say let us define "cruelty." If we are looking at cruelty at one 

 end of the spectrum — that is, there are colleagues of Dr. Grandy's 

 who think cruelty is any action against any animal, any species, 

 any time, anywhere. At the other end of that spectrum in human- 

 ity, there are people who believe that it is perfectly all right to ex- 

 ploit an animal for any cause. 



I do not believe it is cruel to maintain animals in our care if we 

 use them to teach, conserve, and learn. So, that puts me some- 

 where on a different place in the spectrum than Dr. Grandy and 

 other people in the world of animals. 



But we do bring animals into zoological environments. We have 

 done it, because there is an innate interest in nature by humans. 

 That innate interest in nature involves live animals. And people do 

 want to be part of it. 



We also have to recognize that not everyone everywhere can go 

 out and see them in the wild. So, those animals in zoological envi- 

 ronments become ambassadors. And I would like to say that I look 

 at the aquarium as a means to many ends. It is not just the main- 

 tenance of those animals, but it is the opportunity to teach chil- 



