49 



dren, inner city audiences, culturally diverse audiences about con- 

 servation when they have no other opportunity. 



I do not believe that teaching can be done by television alone. I 

 do not believe we can teach any topic by one method alone. 



So, it takes a balance to approach this system. I think we can 

 teach conservation. I think we do teach conservation. And I will an- 

 swer by repeating myself that 115 million people visited aquariums 

 and zoos and marine parks in 1991, including 8 million children 

 with 2 million teachers. And over 25,000 teachers came to learn 

 how to teach informal science education or informal science in their 

 own education programs through our cooperation with schools and 

 curriculums all around the country. 



Senator Kerry. What is your response to that? 



Dr. Grandy. Well, I have a number of responses, as you might 

 guess, Mr. Chairman. But let me be, first of all, very clear about 

 what we are asking. 



We, as the Humane Society of the United States and the 16 orga- 

 nizations that I am representing today under the banner of the Ma- 

 rine Mammal Protection Coalition, are not asking that all animals 

 be taken out of zoos or taken out of aquariums. What we are doing 

 is looking very carefully at the four species of whales commonly 

 held in captivity in this country. Those are the killer whales, as I 

 s£iid, the beluga whale, the false killer whale, and the pilot whale. 



We think, as our study shows — and I have provided this for the 

 record and I know you have a copy as well, sir — we think that it 

 is clear that those animals cannot be held in captivity without 

 causing innate and unstoppable suffering, cruelty, and innumanity. 

 I do not disagree with Mr. Prescott's discussion of teaching con- 

 servation. It is clear that zoos and other facilities do teach some 

 conservation, and they do it well in some cases — ^in many cases, 

 perhaps. 



But the more we learn about whales and what captivity does to 

 them, the more clear it becomes that you cannot teach people con- 

 servation by putting a whale in a concrete tank and making it kick 

 a beach ball around, or something like that. The videos that Bob 

 Talbot does, the videos that are available, the science that is avail- 

 able on the interaction of these whales with their families and one 

 another show conclusively that these animals are interacting with 

 each other over lives that extend 30 to 80 years. 



In captivity, the average lifespan of a killer whale — or time in 

 captivity for a killer whale has been about 7 years. That is all. 

 They die. We simply cannot get there from here. 



Senator Kerry. How about that, Mr. Prescott, since we have nar- 

 rowed the discussion down from all marine mammals to whales, 

 and we have narrowed the distinction between lifespan and habi- 

 tat. What is your response? 



Mr. Prescott. Thank you. Senator. I am going to ask Dr. Jim 

 McBain to join me. And while he is coming to the chair, I will offer 

 a couple of comments. 



Senator Kerry. Who is the representative here of the swim-with- 

 the-dolphins program? 



Mr. Prescott. Dr. Rae Stone. 



Senator Kerry. Could she also come forward? 



