55 



here, and so I am quoting from this. The annual mortality rate for 

 males is 4 percent, and again, bv their own admission, by the in- 

 dustry's own admission, the numbers in captivity are twice to three 

 times that, 4 percent for females at best, and 12 percent for males, 

 and that is from the DeMasters and Drevenek study. 



Another study they may also cite by Duffield and Miller says 

 that there is about a 9-percent annual mortality rate for males and 

 females combined, and that is still significantly higher than what 

 this study determined. 



Senator Kerry. Let us assume it is. Let us assume we accept 

 that. In fairness of creating a record here, which I am trying to do, 

 let me be devil's advocate on both sides. Is there not a value to the 

 research that is being performed, and do we not pursue that kind 

 of research on all forms of life, including human beings? 



Dr. Rose. There are two answers to that. One is, a lot of the re- 

 search that was valuable for the species has already been con- 

 ducted. For instance, we do now know the gestation period for 

 these animals, and that was done from captive studies, and that 

 has been done. 



It was interesting that it was mentioned that some of the other 

 information, for instance interbirth intervals, birth patterns was 

 only discovered from captive animals. That is incorrect. In this wild 

 population we determined that interbirth intervals in the wild are 

 5 years, which makes a lot of sense using information we know 

 from captive animals and from what we have seen in the wild. And 

 so again that work has been done. 



Senator Kerry. But you are not suggesting that the task is com- 

 plete. 



Dr. Grandy. No, we are not. Senator, but the question of re- 

 search, given more and more of what we know today and what is 

 available to us through video and other things shows less and less 

 value, candidly, to doing studies in animals that are isolated in 

 these small, incredibly tiny aquariums where the gentleman said 

 these animals exist in sea water. Well, they do everywhere except 

 in aquariums where the water there is manufactured for them. It 

 is artificial sea water, it is not sea water. 



And the what we are learning is if you want to do an ecological 

 study of whales vou need to study the whale in the area where it 

 is, and that is tne very kind of study that Dr. Rose and her col- 

 leagues and literally scores of others have been doing for the last 

 10 years. And that needs to be the focus of new research. 



Senator Kerry. Are you suggesting that the commercial enter- 

 prise is at the foundation of the effort, and that the research has 

 become the veneer to iustify it? 



Dr. Grandy. Frankly, Senator, I could not have said it better my- 

 self, but I would not have said it in that way. 



Senator Kerry. You said you could not have said it better. 



Dr. Grandy. No, but let me make one other point. We are not 

 suggesting that all whales, as has been alleged, be turned out to- 

 morrow. We know full well that there are some whales in captivity 

 that are probably not suitable candidates for release. And the 

 whales that we have certainly in those cases are going to have to 

 be maintained for the rest of their lives in as humane a condition 

 as we can give them. 



