56 



We will then have, assuming these people are getting better and 

 better at keeping these whales alive, we may have some whales for 

 10 years or more. During that time it is our hope that these facili- 

 ties, like Sea Worid and others, transfer over to doing work with 

 dolphins and things where there can be adequate and very produc- 

 tive captive breedmg programs so that animals do not have to be 

 taken from the wild. 



Senator Kerry. What do you think about that? 



Mr. Prescott. I think it is taking a short view. We are learning 

 more about them in zoological environments, but I really want to 

 address the study. The HSUS study is new one. As I indicated 

 there is confusion among its terms. We have not had an oppor- 

 tunity to look carefully at this. I do not know why they excluded 

 data from some places in the world. I do not understand the meth- 

 odology that assumes all animals were 3 upon transfer, and I think 

 we need time to look at this carefully and respond to it carefully. 

 There are too many innuendos, words being thrown around that 

 are unclear. 



I would also comment that there was a note there that said we 

 had a mortality rate since 1963, or whatever it was, of 48 percent. 

 I am back to my human analogy. If I took a picture of our families 

 30 years ago, I would expect change in 30 years. Some may not be 

 there and some may be new. So, that is life and we ought to go 

 forward on a different basis. 



Senator Kerry. Well, I do not think that is what Dr. Rose was 

 saying, though. 



Mr. Prescott. A mortality rate of 48 percent. 



Senator Kerry. That is right, measured against the expectation 

 or that there is a total mortality rate, but then the second meas- 

 urement is to measure at what point that mortality rate arrived 

 relative to where it should have arrived, I believe. And what she 

 was suggesting was that it occurred at an average of 7 years where 

 it should have occurred somewhere in the vicinity of 25 to 30 years. 

 Is that correct? 



Dr. Rose. Well, using a comparable methodology, I was actually 

 looking at, as I mentioned to you, some annual mortality statistics 

 which show that there is a big difference. 



But also, just counting over the last 25 years that 48 percent 

 mortality, as Mr. Prescott said you would expect some animals to 

 die, that is quite true. However, in the wild population that is men- 

 tioned in this study, in that same time period, actually 20 years, 

 looking at all the animals that were alive at the start of the study 

 and were born during that time, only 18 percent had died. 



Dr. HUTCHINS. Senator, could I comment on that? 



Senator Kerry. Sure. It seems to me also, if you take your anal- 

 ogy further, you are talking about human life. If you look at fami- 

 lies you would indeed see the change. But what she is saying is 

 that most of them died — if it was humans you were looking at — 

 when they were 20 years old, not when they were 40 and 50. 



Dr. HUTCHINS. I might mention that I think these comparisons 

 between wild and captive populations are spurious at best because 

 of the problems with the data collection. Annual mortality rates 

 that are being mentioned are calculated on the basis of those ani- 

 mals that actually survive. These are the animals that have made 



