24 



What they found out when they attached radio tags to these ani- 

 mals is that in a 5- or a 6-day period these animals may have trav- 

 eled 500 miles and come back, a total round trip of 1,000 miles. 



This means that when we are counseling conservation of wright 

 whales and humpback whales, we need to be looking at entire 

 ocean basins, not simply small areas. 



Clearly, so research provides the knowledge base upon which 

 sound conservation decisions must be based. It seems to me that 

 the problem that we are having right now is overregulation rather 

 than not enough regulation. And I think with that, unless there is 

 a specific question, I will stop. 



Senator Kerry. Do you want to add anything, Mr. Secretary? 



Mr. Hall. No. Dr. Hofman is very articulate in explaining the 

 reasons. I guess I would just add that there are very few of us who 

 will have tne opportunity to travel off of the coast of Massachusetts 

 in your State, Senator, to see whales in their native habitat. And 

 the aquariums, the public display facilities provide an opportunity 

 for many people in urban areas and landlocked areas to experience 

 magnificent creatures. And this, I believe, contributes to greater 

 conservation goals, greater public understanding, and greater pub- 

 lic support for what is trying to be accomplished by the Marine 

 Mammal Protection Act. 



Senator Kerry. Well, I appreciate that. I think there is a bal- 

 ance. Let me just say that proudly as a citizen of Massachusetts 

 with a spectacular historv of linkage to the sea and to whaling par- 

 ticularly, I have thrilled at the experience of the connection be- 

 tween those mammals of the ocean and ourselves. 



And until you go out and see it — I mean, I went out like every- 

 body, oh, this win be fun — but when you see those incredible ani- 

 mals just basking in the water and playing with each other £ind 

 communicating and even, I think, many perceive communicating 

 and entertaining those in the boats, it is a really remarkable expe- 

 rience. And you cannot help but gain a better respect for the histor- 

 ical groundings of ourselves and this planet, not to mention to real- 

 ly stand in awe of the millions of years represented in the process. 



So, I really think there is that connection, and as the father of 

 two kids who has gone to aquariums and watched the questions 

 asked and the eyes opened and the learning process go on, I think 

 we do have to recognize that. 



At the same time, we have to understand that there are people — 

 for whatever reasons — lacking in good common sense and in a 

 healthy respect for some of those forces, and regrettably there are 

 abuses, and you have to find ways to guard against them. There 

 has to be a balance, and there can be, and I think hopefully we are 

 working toward it here. 



I have to proceed to the floor momentarily to vote. I just want 

 to wrap up this panel before I do, and then we can use the interim 

 to switch panels while I go and vote and come back. 



In the 1988 NOAA discussion paper on permit policies and proce- 

 dures for scientific research, NOAA came up with some interesting 

 statistics. On public display, the report indicated that by 1988 

 about 145 U.S. facilities had obtained permits for holding about 

 1,300 marine mammals. With respect to scientific research from 

 1973 to 1988, NOAA received permit applications requesting 



