45 



growth of information and knowledge, whether it is need to know 

 or not, whether it is NEPA or Clean Water or whatever, has grown 

 expedientially. 



And so one of the issues, I think, that really had occurred is that 

 the Forest Service wasn't properly funded, wasn't funding in terms 

 of the information that it was doing in preparation for sales in 

 terms of NEPA, in terms of a variety of other laws. I mean, that 

 is one of the problems. You have to put more in there and have the 

 expertise. 



For instance, with NEPA, they have greatly improved their ca- 

 pacity to, in fact, do an acceptable NEPA statement so there has 

 to be that type of expertise. For instance, we don't need people just 

 with forestry degrees, we need master degrees and others in these 

 roles. 



Of course, that deals with reorganizing what had been the way 

 that they were functioning at a time when we are downsizing gov- 

 ernment. Of course, the land management agencies have really 

 taken it on the chin in the 80's and again in the 90's, and that is 

 much to my dismay. 



I am interested in seeing more managers and land managers out 

 there to do the job because without people, you can't do it. But you 

 also have to have the advanced degrees to be able to deal with the 

 type of complexities that are challenged, whether it is Clean Air or 

 Water or the other types of laws that deal with a very complex 

 problem like the Endangered Species Act. 



And all too often I think that the appeal process, as I said ear- 

 lier, and some of you, I think, were here, that we are 

 superimposing certain standards from Congress, and then it came 

 down where we were cutting 12 billion on a mandated cut a year, 

 so much in a certain region, and it came down to the fact that they 

 couldn't make that square peg fit into essentially a round hole. 



In any case, I have information here which says that the Forest 

 Service testified today saying that the length of appeals, the length 

 of time — I mean, what is a reasonable amount of time for an appeal 

 to be resolved? 



I understand that something like 95 percent of the appeals are 

 resolved in 45 days. That, obviously, represents that you put money 

 down or you bid, and you have to wait for that 45 days to elapse. 

 But they do resolve 95 percent of these appeals in 45 days. That 

 is a big improvement, is it not, Nadine? Pardon me for using your 

 first name. Your hand went out so I 



Ms. Bailey. OK. It is an improvement, but let us look at the 

 other things that have happened on those forests. The operating 

 period five years ago pretty much used to be year-round during the 

 80's, that you could go out into the forest and actually operate. 



But for someone working on Federal lands now, there are spotted 

 owl seasons that you can't be in the forest. There are different 

 times in the winter that you can't be in the forest. There are dif- 

 ferent breeding seasons so this narrows the window of opportunity 

 to actually go in and perform on those sales. 



So if an appeal is filed and we wait 45 days, often the cycle is 

 made so that the sale will be sold and have an operating period 

 real close to the time that you can go into that forest. So that the 



