13 



border, we share common problems. Mr. Unger, thank, you for com- 

 ing by today. I do have a couple of questions. 



But combining with that, I just simply have to make the state- 

 ment that I share the Chairman's suspicion. Even with all due re- 

 spect to Mr. Unger and his observation of the appropriations re- 

 quest, there is an infamous phrase that was coined by the now jun- 

 ior Senator — well, I take that back — I guess he is — yes, he is a jun- 

 ior Senator from New York — Mr. Moynihan, on another problem, a 

 two-word phrase of infamy, "Benign neglect." 



It is my humble contention that even when going through the 

 motions and appropriations, this Administration at best offers be- 

 nign neglect to thousands upon thousands of rural Westerners who 

 seek to make an honest living in a very perplexing historical situa- 

 tion which has placed untold millions of acres of land under Fed- 

 eral control. So I appreciate again the fact, Mr. Unger, that you are 

 here this morning. But I share the Chairman's frustrations. 



And following on his admonition in terms of a screening board, 

 I just simply want to ask, you have been familiar with the appeals 

 process. Aiid, again, for the record, I just would simply ask do you 

 consistently find the same people appealing every proposal on a 

 given forest? 



Mr. Unger. There are some cases where that does occur. 



Mr. Hayworth. And from your knowledge of the State of Ari- 

 zona, would you say that is a fairly routine occurrence? 



Mr. Unger. Susan, would you 



Ms. Shepherd. Yes. 



Mr. Unger. Our staff agrees that that is the case. 



Mr. Hayworth. The usual cast of characters, the usual suspects, 

 my dear friend Kiernan Seckley of the Southwestern Center for Bi- 

 ological Diversity and others such as Dr. Robin Silver. Now, to your 

 knowledge 



Mr. Unger. Mr. Congressman, I, of course, would not character- 

 ize any of the appellants in any way, but I am simply saying that 

 there are frequently the same groups or individuals who may ap- 

 peal individual projects. 



Mr. Hayworth. To your knowledge, do these groups live directly 

 in the communities involved? 



Mr. Unger. We were asked this question in the Senate last year 

 when we had just gotten started with the new process as to how 

 many people are appealing projects who are from outside the area, 

 so to speak, as compared with those who are in the local vicinity. 

 Our figures at that time were that less than one percent of all of 

 the appeals were filed by people outside, you know, way away. 



Mr. Hayworth. Well, I am sure we can redefine it as the State. 

 I mean, I am sure if you said, well, the State of Arizona, which, 

 of course, is a large place, the sixth largest State in the Union in 

 terms of land mass. My district, for example, is the size of the 

 Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. And I guess if we wanted to take 

 it on a State-by-State basis, that perhaps has an element of verac- 

 ity. 



But I am just saying I am just curious as to knowing those 

 who — the self-appointed new prohibitionists whose goal is to shut 

 down any type of economic activity in the national forests — I am 

 just wondering how many folks live directly in the affected area 



