12 



And so we asked Mr. Bosworth or somebody what the story is on 

 that, and I agree there should be some roads closed. I just distinc- 

 tively have the impression, and I just don't mean to lay this on you, 

 but I distinctly have the impression that the Clinton Administra- 

 tion is moving heaven and earth to close every Forest Service road 

 they can. The gentleman from Colorado I yield to you. 



Mr. Allard. I thank the Chairman for yielding on his time. I 

 wanted to get back before you got on the road issue — you had said 

 that there is about five percent of the appeals that were over- 

 turned. 



Mr. Unger. That we overturned. Yes. 



Mr. Allard. How many total appeals do you have? 



Mr. Unger. The total number of appeals in the last fiscal year 

 was approximately 1,000. 



Mr. Allard. OK. So then there is 50 that get 



Mr. Unger. We actually reversed the decision on about 25 ap- 

 peals last year. 



Mr. Allard. OK. Do you have a figure of the total cost? 



Mr. Unger. We don't have any total figures of costs because we 

 include these kinds of costs with our planning costs. We did esti- 

 mate last year that a project level appeal could cost in the neigh- 

 borhood of $15,000 for processing costs. 



Mr. Allard. So you have got thousands. You have got 1,000, and 

 how much per appeal? 



Mr. Unger. $15,000. 



Mr. Allard. $15,000. 



Mr. Unger. So that would be $15 million. 



Mr. Allard. We just had a Budget Committee meeting yesterday 

 or maybe it was the day before yesterday, and we had gotten a 

 GAO report back that the Forest Service's bookkeeping system was 

 in such a disarray that they couldn't reach any conclusions about 

 what was happening with the budget. 



You know, we talked about costs here. Is there something in the 

 plan to try and have more accountability in the budget process? We 

 are trying to look at the cost of these kinds of appeals, and the fig- 

 ures just aren't there. And they keep telling us, "Well, we are in 

 the process of trying to correct it," but I have a feeling they have 

 been saying that for the last 20 years. 



Mr. Unger. Well, we absolutely are trying to correct deficiencies 

 in our accounting processes and install systems that will enable us 

 to do a first-rate job. We have been working on this for the past 

 several years, and we think we have made some progress. We have 

 not achieved full success yet. 



Mr. Allard. I yield back the balance of my time. 



Mr. Hansen. Thank you. I just have to state that, Mr. Unger, I 

 know you people have wrestled with this problem on appeals and 

 the steps as I pointed out to you. It is my opinion, we will probably 

 come up with a screening board or something. If I were the Forest 

 Service, I would come up with something before Congress does as 

 we may give you something you don't think you can live with. The 

 gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Hayworth. 



Mr. Hayworth. I thank the Chairman, and I would just associ- 

 ate myself with almost every word and every interrogative that he 

 has offered this morning. Since Utah and Arizona share a common 



