190 



Senator Wirth. I am not making a percentage argument. 



Senator Murkowski. I just wanted you to understand that it 

 does not do any good to argue percentages; you have to have specif- 

 ic miUions of board feet. Total acreage in the Tongass is 16.8 mil- 

 Hon. The areas of commercial forest land in the Tongass 5.4 mil- 

 lion. Of that 5.4 million, Mr. Chairman, 1.7 million is in wilderness, 

 permanently locked up. It is virgin old-growth timber. A million 

 acres are closed to logging for ten years while the Teler Process is 

 observed for fish and wildlife and other habitat considerations and 

 1.7 million remains for timber harvest over a 100 year perpetual 

 year cycle. 



Now the total wilderness in the Tongass is 5.4 million acres. 

 There is a difference obviously between the total wilderness and 

 the total acreage of commercial forest lands in the Tongass. Of the 

 total wilderness acreage in the Tongass, and I think this is a point 

 that has to be kept in mind as we compare it to other areas, 1.7 

 million acres of commerical forest land in the Tongass is in wilder- 

 ness and will remain in wilderness. If you want to put that up to a 

 size it is approximately the size of New Hampshire, larger than the 

 State of Massachusetts. That means that the forest land available 

 to logging of 1.7 million acres over a hundred year cycle, with a 

 maximum cut of 17,000 acres per year or one-tenth of one percent 

 of the forest. The average cut for 1980 to 1988 is seven thousand 

 acres. The average acreage harvested over the last 10 years is ap- 

 proximately 7,000 acres and Mr. Chairman, the timber harvest 

 levels from 1978 to 1988, per year moved from 414 to 251 million 

 board feet, depending on the market. The reason the Tongass is dif- 

 ferent is that the Federal Government saw fit in 1980 to trade for 

 the one million acres put into wilderness $40 million annual appro- 

 priation to allow access to the timber that remained. One can say 

 what price wilderness, as we have seen in some areas in Northern 

 California, in the redwoods, when they have taken timber out and 

 they have actually paid a price on this wilderness. 



Now these are facts, Mr. Chairman, and represent not the emo- 

 tions but the realities associated with how you have to look at Ton- 

 gass today. It took a million acres out of the commercial forest and 

 put it into wilderness so there you are today with this reality and 

 the question is what do we do with the rest of it and that is the 

 whole point of this hearing. 



Senator Wirth. If I understand the reason that the Tongass is 

 treated differently, is that is the price for wilderness. That is the 

 summary, that is the bottom line. 



Senator Murkowski. That is the bottom line. 



Now let's say we take away the amount 



Senator Wirth. Then the issue that remains is was that a wise 

 decision to allegedly trade wilderness for special treatment of the 

 Tongass and that is the issue. Is that the core issue that is going to 

 be submitted to Senator Murkowski in this legislation? 



Senator Murkowski. Well, I think that is the whole point. If we 

 are going to debate on one end we ought to open, go back and 

 debate the merits of the wilderness. Is it in our best interests to 

 take a million acres out of the commercial forest and put it in wil- 

 derness? We can go back into that and each introduce a bill on 

 either side of that and have at it but nevertheless this was out into 



