243 



also ask the panel if they are generally in agreement that two mil- 

 lion acres are closed to logging, currently this 2 million of the 5.4 

 million acres of land, forest land. In the Tongass, those two million 

 acres are in fact closed to logging for ten years under the TLMP 

 Fish and Wildlife and other considerations? Can you in consider- 

 ation — give a consideration to TLMP Plan? Can anybody here? 



Mr. KiRCHHOFF. May I speak to you a little — give a little histori- 

 cal fact on this? 



Senator Murkowski. Anybody care to comment on this? 



Mr. Mehrkins. I would like to make a comment that indeed it 

 has been deferred for a ten year period and a comment that con- 

 cerned me today, that it was mentioned that we could maintain 

 that 4.5 billion board feet if no more land was — which we have also 

 taken into account but I think that means, and I am not sure, I'm 

 not qualified for that, is that to come up with that 4.5 billion that 

 is all the existing land timber base, you would have to drop into 

 the timber base — I know the figures and "Led-to's" and those lands 

 will have to be tapped if that 4.5 billion timber supply mandate is 

 continued. 



Senator Murkowski. Well, that is obviously part of the TLMP 

 and I think it is important that all Alaskans recognize the acres of 

 commercial forest in the Tongass, 5.4 million acres currently, com- 

 mercial forests 1.7 million acres are in wilderness permanently 

 locked up as old-growth timber, two million acres are closed to log- 

 ging for ten years by TLMP for fish and wildlife and other consid- 

 erations and at least 1.7 million acres scheduled for timber harvest 

 over 100 years and that is what we are talking about canceling at 

 this time or dramatically changing. 



Senator Wirth. There appears to be some debate about these 

 numbers, is that right? 



Senator Murkowski. These are Forest Service numbers, I do not 

 think there should be any debate. 



Senator Wirth. But I gather from your response that there is 

 some debate about the 1.7 million acres that is closed due to wilder- 

 ness and you are saying well there are not really commercial but 

 there are gradations of commercial and maybe you can provide to 

 us what you mean by that. 



The public — well, you talked earlier about 30,000 board feet per 

 acre if I remember and a lot of this falls below that 30,000, and 

 30,000 is not commercially viable. We can all go spinning around 

 like crazy with statistics I am sure and we do it on a steady basis. 

 Maybe you can give us some more statistics that will show a little 

 bit more about what is going on. 



Senator Murkowski. I think we have to recognize, we have to 

 have some basis for saying the Forest Service is right or wrong. I 

 am just saying that is all we have, I would be interested in know- 

 ing what Mr. Mehrkins' figures are that he uses for commerci^ 

 forests within the Tongass. What figure do you use? 



Mr. Mehrkins. You asked me this question in 1987 when I testi- 

 fied before this Committee and I believe I answered it then, 80,000 

 acres is as prime stock if I remember right, there is 180,000 acres, 

 30,000 board foot an acre in the above. 



Now I would like to leave myself open to correct that. 



