244 



Senator Wirth. We can leave the record open for that. We will 

 ask the Forest Service as well. It has been my understanding that 

 it was not 1.7 million acres of commercially viable timber that had 

 been set aside as wilderness but rather more like 150,000 to 300,000 

 acres that was; just that amount has been set aside as wilderness 

 and that is because the definition of what is viable is different than 

 the definition that used by some — well Senator Murkowski knows a 

 lot more about it than I do. 



Senator Murkowski. Well, you have to be careful with these fig- 

 ures because if you say that there is 80,000 acres of wilderness and 

 how much is in the whole forest, commercial grade of timber? 



Mr. Mehrkins. That is a good point. In fact there was a misno- 

 mer about the whole idea of commercial forest land and why we 

 had a failure to try to invest marginal timberlands. 



Senator Wirth. We will leave this open for the record and we 

 will also contact the Forest Service to make sure that we get their 

 definition and their numbers. You had a lot of experience in this, 

 didn't you; you worked for the Forest Service for awhile? 



Mr. Mehrkins. I worked 15 years, 17 years with the Forest Serv- 

 ice and up in the Alaska Region since 1975. 



Senator Wirth. Senator Murkowski, without guessing, we cannot 

 get any more unless we have some base to agree upon or at least 

 know where the differences are right now and I have a little feel- 

 ing of a greased pig, you squeeze it and it squeals off and then you 

 grab it again and it squeals off over there, to the auctioneer. 



Senator Burns. I have a couple of questions that come to mind. 

 This wolf thing intrigues me. I want to ask you, is this the same 

 critter that they want to introduce back into the Yellowstone Eco- 

 system in Montana? [General laughter.] 



Mr. KiRCHHOFF. It is a different sub-species I believe. 



Senator Wirth. That is all for my bill. [General laughter.] 



Senator Burns. I just wondered if I could offer a suggestion to 

 the Senator from Colorado, if he could make the initial introduc- 

 tion maybe into the State of Vermont or Massachusetts and we 

 will see how it works there before we try it in Montana. 



Senator Wirth. Maybe by having them that would bring the 

 tourists to Massachusetts and that would offset the Dukakis' 

 budget deficit. 



Senator Burns. Well, he needs it bad enough. The debate has 

 started to heat up down there amongst stockmen as you well know, 

 and I could tell you a little story about the Airedale dogs on 

 Kodiak Island, but I will not bore you with that. 



I have heard a lot of questions of second growth or regrowth or 

 regeneration — what scientific basis do you have for your contention 

 that second growth or regrowth timber is of inferior value for wood 

 products and fish and wildlife habitat and recreation use? We 

 know it goes through stages and what I have been listening to here 

 is that basically we are talking about the harvest of a renewable 

 resource, is that correct? 



Mr. KiRCHHOFF. It is renewable as a wood fibre but not in the 

 sense of the regular characteristics of those stands. The character- 

 istics of second growth cedar is very much different than the old 

 growth stands that they replace. 



