384 



Senator Wirth. Thank you very much, Governor Cowper. 



[Applause.] 



Senator Wirth. Please let me just, as a point to be made by the 

 Chair to those who are with us today as guests of the Committee, 

 remind you that you are guests of the United States Senate. As 

 much as there is a temptation in an event like this to express one's 

 appreciation, and I share your enthusiasm for the careful analysis 

 done by Governor Cowper, much as you wish to express that enthu- 

 siasm, we would appreciate it if you would not do so. It is contrary 

 to the rules of the United States Senate, and I would ask you not 

 to respond one way or another to any of the witnesses. 



I would, if I might, Governor Cowper, like to state right now for 

 the record that it is a very good table that the Southeast Confer- 

 ence presented, which was a comparison of your approach, 

 ANILCA, the legislation that I introduced, and the legislation in- 

 troduced by Congressman Mrazek, H.R. 987, which I think is a very 

 helpful resource and a good framework for us all to look at. It also 

 includes the outline of the areas that you are proposing, the 12 

 areas of the Southeast Conference. 



I think it is appropriate, if we might take a few minutes, that we 

 might exchange some thoughts about that. Do you have a little bit 

 of time? 



Governor Cowper. Certainly. 



Senator Wirth. One of the issues that we face. Governor Cowper, 

 one of the broad philosophical questions that came up yesterday, 

 and I wanted to give you an opportunity to address it, is a question 

 of why the Tongass should be treated in any way different from 

 other national forests in the United States. No other national 

 forest in the United States has a congressionally mandated or a 

 congressionally suggested ceiling or target for timbering. Earlier 

 someone said that we should not micro manage, and I would agree 

 with that. 



Why should the Congress be telling a forest how much should be 

 timbered or might be timbered? Why should there be within the 

 appropriation a fund automatically set aside for the Tongass? No 

 such fund exists for any other national forest. Why should we 

 maintain these long-term timber contracts? Those long-term timber 

 contracts were canceled in every other national forest during the 

 1950s and 1960s. 



In other words, from the perspective of many people the Tongass 

 stands out. Granted, is the largest national forest but the question 

 that we have to answer is why should the Tongass be treated dif- 

 ferently. I would like to ask you how you would respond to that 

 question. 



Governor Cowper. Mr. Chairman, there is in the law a doctrine 

 known as estoppel, which is legal and not all people understand 

 what it means. 



Senator Wirth. I am a non-lawyer. Give me a shot. 



Governor Cowper. Basically what it says is that if people have 

 been induced to rely on a certain policy and if the policy was 

 changed and it would act to their detriment, then you cannot 

 change the policy. So, that is legal talk, and it is not directly appli- 

 cable to this situation. But the fact is that the Congress in years 

 past did, in fact, set up a special legislation that directly affected 



