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trigued at the differences in the set-aside areas. You all had pro- 

 posed 12 areas to be set aside, totaling 646,000 acres. And the legis- 

 lation that I proposed has 23 areas or 1,789,000 acres. So, first of 

 all, are those 12 areas that you are talking about set aside tempo- 

 rarily or are they set aside permanently? 



Governor Cowper. They are permanently set aside. 



Senator Wirth. So they cannot be timbered in the future; they 

 would not be wilderness but they cannot be timbered in the future? 



Governor Cowper. That is correct. 



Senator Wirth. On that point, your legislation is stronger than 

 mine. Mine sets it aside temporarily until the Forest Service comes 

 back with an overall new approach for the forest. So, I just wanted 

 the record to show that, that you are rougher on the 646,000 acres 

 and that we are in great agreement on a number of these areas. I 

 am sure that by putting this into the record, we will show that we 

 are identical on Berners' Bay. We are identical on Kadashan. We 

 are identical on Karta River, and we are identical on Young Lake. 

 We are identical on Trap Bay. Five areas that everybody agrees 

 ought to be excluded. 



We then have remaining some areas with significant difference 

 in the acreage, and other areas that we have proposed that are not 

 in your proposal. The question I want to ask and maybe it would be 

 appropriate to then ask our own staff, how do we go about getting 

 together and understanding from you and your people why you 

 chose the areas you did and the acreages that you did, why you did 

 not pick up some of the areas that we have and the acreages that 

 we have? I would like to understand, if we could, where those dif- 

 ferences are and where they came about. Maybe you have already 

 embarked upon that but I think it would be very useful. Clearly, 

 we are going to have legislation of some kind of set-asides like this, 

 and I think we ought to be as careful as possible to understand 

 your thinking on this. I know, Mr. Campbell, you have been deeply 

 involved in this. What process should we set up? I am just kind of 

 groping as to where we go from here on these boundary lines. 



Mr. Campbell. Mr. Chairman, we would be happy to work with 

 you on the details of these. The reasons that we selected the 12 

 areas is that we did an extensive outreach to every community 

 within Southeast Alaska throughout this process, repetitive meet- 

 ings, and said, "tell us what you think," before we got to the areas 

 that should be set aside. These were the 12 areas that came back 

 from the communities. Some of the areas that support the timber 

 industry very strongly say that this area is very special. The other 

 thing that the communities felt or were very adamant on was that 

 they did not want these areas in capital wilderness. These were 

 areas that they use or need to use, and they did not want involved. 



If I may, just very briefly, one of the things we realized is that, 

 when we set aside these areas, we do contract some timber from 

 the timber base. We try to look at the areas carefully to do that to 

 the minimum extent, but to the extent that we do hurt the timber 

 base, we also realize that we affect the jobs that are connected with 

 that industry. We would all love to be able to simply live here and 

 enjoy Southeast Alaska, but in order to do that, we have to have 

 jobs; and we feel that there can be a better mix of jobs, and there 



