485 



ty. To take the lowest priority and make an exchange for 28,000 

 acres, and get out of it. That is what we tried to do. 



Senator Wirth. Let me ask a fmal question. Who is "they" get- 

 ting in return in terms of, say, land that was put out for bid or 

 contracts, as has been suggested, from the Forest Service; why was 

 not this land traded for other land that was going to be timbered 

 and had not been timbered yet? 



Mr. Senna. It was never offered. 



Senator Murkowski. For the same reason that people objected to 

 further wilderness withdrawals; it takes away from the timber. 

 You only have so much timber here, and you are exchanging 

 timber land for timber land. 



Senator Wirth. Because of the long-term commitments to cut 

 timber, is that right? 



[Groaning from the crowd.] 



Senator Wirth. That sounds to me like what we are saying. Be- 

 cause of the long-term commitment to cut timber elsewhere, there 

 could not be a trade to save the timber on Admiralty; is that right? 

 Anjrway, I think this may be a very interesting kind of a case study 

 as to why these long-term commitments ought to be not only re- 

 viewed but cancelled because it is precisely these very long-term 

 commitments that are driving a whole variety of other choices, 

 that the long term contracts in some cases may prove to be a bad 

 decision. It sounds to me like one was just made. 



Anyway, thank you very much. I appreciate the comments of 

 this panel. 



Senator Murkow^ski. I think you have the record and, as I said 

 before, you can say it any way you want to, but I do not believe 

 wilderness designations are not long-term designations. They are 

 long-term designations. If we look at what is basically occurring 

 here, and it is not a concept of not attempting to do the job but, by 

 the same token, why should not the departmental community sup- 

 port a high priority, which is maintaining the sanctity of Admiral- 

 ty by giving it up and, in exchange, a position on other wilderness 

 that is not contingent to Admiralty. 



Now, that is the other side of the issue. You can interpret it your 

 way by saying that the problem is, in your term, sales, and I can 

 say it the other way. Let us take less priority wilderness, do the 

 exchange, because the highest value is the sanctity of Admiralty, 

 and that is where we failed. 



Senator Wirth. I guess the problem — I guess I do not under- 

 stand, I did not know the environmentalists had been elected to 

 public office. 



Senator Murkowski. If you do not know by now, I guess you 

 never will. 



[Applause.] 



Senator Wirth. Well, I thought there was an elective process, 

 and people got the benefit of an election. 



Senator Murkowski. Wherever we come from, one will be classi- 

 fied in one general term and the other in another. You have to 

 wear those badges. 



Senator Wirth. Thank you all very much. I appreciate your 

 being with us. Thanks ever so much. 



