501 



Mr. Williams. We have done that, but we really hate to see the 

 thing be in Utigation. We are trying to get some things straight- 

 ened out so that we do not see the fisheries and logging manage- 

 ment through litigation so much. We are trying to come to grips 

 with those things through some legislation. 



Senator Burns. Did you want to respond to that? 



Mr. Mathisen. The mandated part of it goes hand in hand with 

 not just the amount of timber that is put up for sale but the dollar 

 value, $40 million plus for the timber supply fund. It all kind of 

 goes hand in hand and becomes more of a mandate by the Forest 

 Service to at least put up the sales and go on that pre-road. And 

 when it reaches us, that is the feeling we get, there is nothing they 

 can do, they have to go in and do it. We are fighting not only the 

 sales in some instances but pre-roading. I mentioned that Chuck 

 River has potential and that is totally damaged estuary before log- 

 ging begins. 



Senator Burns. Okay. The thing there was I wanted to clarify 

 because it keeps showing up in testimony basically, I think, by 

 groups on both sides of the issue. But one of them seems like only 

 terminology that is defined in the dictionary. So, I took all these 

 good notes, and I lost them. I will readdress this. Thank you very 

 much. It has been a good panel. 



Senator Murkowski. I want to compliment the panel. I think 

 you have an extraordinary group of Alaskans that know what they 

 are talking about and an industry that meets payroll, and it is re- 

 freshing to have their recommendation. 



Sig, you and others know that part of the bureaucratic game to 

 get the budget is to indicate that you have a mandate for services. 

 It is convenient to use this by saying, "Hey, we have to have a 

 budget because it says here we put up 4.5 billion board feet per 

 decade and they go into your communities and say, 'We have to do 

 this, this is a dictate of your Congress.' " 



So, obviously have some problems with the Forest Service and 

 those problems have to be corrected and it would be hoped that 

 your input in such things as TLMP, Tongass. Land Management 

 Plan, which I am sure you had an opportunity to participate in — at 

 least I know a lot of folks in Petersburg have, and it would be con- 

 sidered in the ultimate disposition of this legislation. 



I would like to point out as well, Sig, that it is my understanding 

 that the Chuck River timber sales have been put on hold. The 

 Forest Service put the sales on hold because of the objections of the 

 state after the Environmental Impact Statement was completed. 

 The sales have never been advertised. And this information is sub- 

 ject to correction, but this is the information that I have. 



One of the difficulties there, of course, is my conviction that the 

 state, in overseeing the native timber sales and goldbelts in this 

 area, and this road does connect to it and offers opportunities both 

 ways, but it does not have the necessary resources dedicated for the 

 oversight of timbering on private land. So, while we look at the de- 

 ficiencies of the Forest Service, and there are many, very many le- 

 gitimate ones, we also have the problem of overseeing the water 

 sheds associated with private lands. I am sure you will agree with 

 that. We just have to do a better job in that area. 



