507 



being processed in Singapore and Hong Kong and Bangkok and 

 marketed over in France, because I have been there and I have 

 seen it. That is another hearing for another time. The Chairman is 

 quite right, I feel pretty strongly about that, but I am interested in 

 your scientific experience of trying to rehabilitate these streams. 

 Do you have evidence of what they were previously and what is the 

 successful process or is it successful at all? 



Mr. EsQUiRO. We have some records that we were able to get 

 from the Department of Fish and Game as well as other organiza- 

 tions and also individuals who have local knowledge about the way 

 things were in any number of streams throughout Southeast 

 Alaska. We do have to prioritize the work that we do. I mentioned 

 very early in my presentation that we are funded by a 3 percent 

 tax that the salmon fishermen of Southeast Alaska imposed upon 

 themselves, in order to try and make a difference with regard to 

 this resource. 



We do projects for a number of reasons. One reason is what you 

 have already stated, which is to mitigate some loss that occurred in 

 a stream whether it be by scouring a road or whatever. Another 

 reason we do salmon projects is to mitigage our losses that may 

 have occurred in other areas of our district. We have been very 

 limited, to be very truthful, in our ability to respond to litigation 

 work in many streams. In some cases, we have gone in and done 

 projects with the Forest Service, as well as other State organiza- 

 tions, and have assisted in — you know, it is sometimes valuable we 

 have those stumps in the streams rather than when we tend to 

 think about a stream it is, first of all, cleaning it out. In a lot of 

 cases, that is not the thing to do now. Juvenile fish need places to 

 hide. Many of these places are conducive to production of food for 

 them. What I am saying is that we have learned an awful lot about 

 the technology of what is good for a fish. We would be the first to 

 admit that there is a lot more that we need to learn. 



Senator Murkowski. My question is, specifically, is there an ab- 

 sence of success or no success? 



Mr. EsQUiRO. We have had varying degrees of success. I think 

 Alaska's hatchery program is probably one of the most successful 

 in the world. 



Senator Murkowski. The Chairman recalled that with regard to 

 this legislation, the chairman of the full committee was quite ada- 

 mant in directing more reference go to wildlife habitat and other 

 things that were significant. The folks included those in Louisiana. 

 There might be some justification to consider putting some of the 

 stumpage into designated areas in order to enhance the fisheries in 

 other areas but, obviously, it takes money to do these things, but I 

 would just simply offer that. 



In conclusion, I know we have a little different interpretation of 

 the virgin old growth, and I want to make sure that my colleague 

 does not misunderstand me. He used some terms like "waste" and 

 "torn down," and I want to make sure that we understand for the 

 record there is 1.7 million acres of old growth that is already set 

 aside, one-third of the commercial forest, in perpetuity. That might 

 not be in all of the right areas. There is another 1.7 that is set 

 aside for 10 years with the TLMP for fish and game and maybe 

 that is not right but there is 1.7 left for commercial timber. 



