571 



Ms. Baade. Well, he did testify under oath. 



Senator Murkowski. I am just adding some background informa- 

 tion. I appreciate your point of view and I thank you very much, I 

 assure you. 



Mr. Schmidt, in your written testimony you mentioned why Sen- 

 ator Murkowski changed his own legislation. Well, it really was not 

 my legislation to start out but nevertheless it is Tongass legisla- 

 tion. I was not around when the legislation was put together. If I 

 had been around when that legislation had been put together, as 

 my friends in the native community are quite aware of, I would not 

 have stood still for a situation that allowed the export of round logs 

 from the native land selection because I feel, and have felt, that if 

 you are going to have a primary manufacturing policy to support 

 the local employment, why export the jobs by exporting the round 

 logs? 



We were going to initiate a situation of encouraging primary 

 manufacture and that was the opportunity to do it because we had 

 appropriations on the Forest Service that they are not allowed to 

 export the round log and then when we opened up the private se- 

 lections, there was no prohibition on round logs and, quite appro- 

 priately so, the stockholders in the major village corporations 

 wanted to get the highest yield for their land sales and they could 

 do it by exporting the round logs. I do not think it helped employ- 

 ment based on the small sawmills and we had the two mills in 

 Haines and one in Petersburg and a mill in — two mills in Wrangell 

 and they had tough times. Nevertheless, I think it is fair to state 

 that when stumpage re-evaluation occurs, and it probably has oc- 

 curred in Ketchikan where stumpage has been raised up to $68, it 

 is my understanding stumpage will be revisited based on a formula 

 of some kind relative to when it comes up for renewal and it is 

 going to occur here in Sitka as well. So there will be undoubtedly a 

 substantial increase in stumpage. This is what I understand. 



I think that basically concludes my questions. I will thank you 

 all again for your excellent testimony. 



Yes, ma'am. 



Ms. Johnstone. The information that I have from the Forest 

 Service is that the present price that APC pays is in effect until 

 December 31, 1990. 



Senator Murkowski. Well, I am glad to get that information be- 

 cause I was under the assumption they were negotiating at this 

 time and the difference between stumpage in the Ketchikan area 

 and the Sitka area, the Ketchikan area, from the standpoint of spe- 

 cies, had basically better timber than the Sitka area just because 

 the further north you go there is less volume of acreage in general 

 but there's an expert that can testify to that. Thank you. 



Senator Wirth. Mr. Burns? 



Senator Burns. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. 



I was concerned about one thing in making all of these notes and 

 Mr. Metcalf alluded in his testimony here that the regional office 

 was aware about the pulp companies using phony independent log- 

 ging companies in order to bid in sales established to protect inde- 

 pendent loggers. Then the Forest Service awarded them the sale. I 

 think that is pretty strong, a pretty strong comment. Were there 



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