55 



Senator Hatfield. Now we will return to the format of questions 

 for Ms. Rivlin. 



Senator Stevens. 



Senator Stevens. Mr. Chairman, my question really comes from 

 the same basis as my colleagues. I note with interest that you have 

 adopted an administration program that will, I gather, lead to 

 about a $200 million credit to Bonneville Power. That will save, I 

 am told, the average user about $36 a year. 



The result of the action of the National Marine Fisheries Service 

 that Senator Murkowski has just talked about will result in the re- 

 duction in the income of the southeast Alaska fisherman 100 times 

 that, $3,600, almost $4,000 per permit holder will be the loss, 

 based on the actions of the National Marine Fisheries Service that 

 mandates the reduction of fishing in our area, even though, as Sen- 

 ator Murkowski mentioned, the net result of that action is that 

 only two or three fish are estimated to get to the spawning 

 grounds. 



Now, I came to ask you the question: Is it possible that the ad- 

 ministration will look to the impact of the action that is being 

 taken now in order to restore the Snake River salmon on the Alas- 

 ka fisherman, too? I mean as a practical matter, we would be bet- 

 ter off — the problem is the power, not the fishermen. 



The dams are what harm the fish runs, not the fishermen in 

 Alaska, and yet the fishermen in Alaska are now under an order 

 from your administration not to harvest fish in southeast Alaska, 

 although the total amount that goes through in the time when they 

 are forbidden from taking salmon is about — the total I am told will 

 be 12 fish. 



Now, it is just preposterous, but it is true. Our people are going 

 to lose 100 times in terms of income what you are saving the rate- 

 payers in the Pacific Northwest by your announced action of the 

 credit. 



Are you going to look into the impact on everybody or just in 

 terms of the ratepayers to Bonneville Power? 



Ms. Rivlin. The subject of today's hearing is the impact on Bon- 

 neville Power ratepayers. But there are a lot of costs here, and cer- 

 tainly the costs to fishermen are very important. I assure you we 

 are cognizant of that. 



Senator Stevens. I do not want my colleague and I to be mis- 

 interpreted as being opposed to what you are doing to help the peo- 

 ple of the Pacific Northwest, but we do not think that it is a fair 

 proposition. 



Over one-half of the permit holders for those salmon fishermen 

 are people who are Bonneville power users. They live in the winter- 

 time in the Pacific Northwest. I think that somehow or other there 

 ought to be some equity in terms of the administration's approach, 

 particularly with, these orders that have no real impact on saving 

 the fish runs. 



I do not want to prolong it, Mr. Chairman. 



But I do hope that, Ms. Rivlin, you will examine the material 

 that was sent us by the department of fish and game. We think 

 that there is no plan to reduce the impact on the southeast Alaska 

 fishermen. 



