95 



tors, and other tools — this would essentially cut some lead time off 

 of the normal 1 to 2 years needed to go through the appropriations 

 process. So we have indicated an openness to trying to do that, and 

 the Corps has indicated an openness to looking at their own pro- 

 curement practices to try to make those more flexible. 



I hope that the accomplishment of those things will allow us to 

 get significant facilities in place over the next 3 to 4 years, and by 

 the time we get to fiscal year 1998, or thereabouts, we will know 

 enough about whether a systemwide installation of surface collec- 

 tors, and baffled spillways makes sense or not. 



Senator Kempthorne. All right. Would you tell me whether 

 BPA's fish biologists believe that the latest recommendations from 

 NMFS will benefit salmon, and are they worth the costing imposed 

 on Bonneville and others in the region? 



Mr. Hardy. I would say, as has been the case in the past, our 

 biologists have some differences with the NMFS biologists on these 

 issues. 



This whole area is fraught with assumptions, and the biggest 

 thing we need, and the role Bonneville is trying to play here, is 

 working with NMFS not to debate the respective judgments in biol- 

 ogy, but to collect decent data so we can make data based deci- 

 sions. 



I know Will Stelle, the recently appointed NMFS Director, is 

 committed to that. I am also committed and if we can collect the 

 data, flow survival studies, and other data, my hope is that in 2 

 or 3 years we can be in a position to make much better judgments 

 on what the cost-benefit tradeoff is, and what will lead us to suc- 

 cess in this area. That is the position we are trying to play. 



Senator KEMPTHORNE. Do you agree with me, Mr. Hardy that, 

 for example, on the spilling of the water over the dams — from a 

 previous hearing that was held at the Environmental and Public 

 Works Committee, the National Marine Fisheries Service, and the 

 Corps stated that was an experiment. 



Do you agree with me that some of these experiments were being 

 done where we are not capturing data that helps us with decisions 

 later? 



Mr. Hardy. That may or may not have been the case in the past, 

 but we are absolutely dedicated, for instance, to the spill that is 

 going to occur this year, and in future years, to collect the data, 

 so we can start to make judgments about different levels of nitro- 

 gen super-saturation or other issues needed to make more discrete 

 judgments. 



I am confident that NMFS is just as dedicated as we are. The 

 Corps is also trying to have a data collection effort that has integ- 

 rity. As we go through this process, whether it is the amount of 

 spill, the amount of transportation, or the volume of flows, we want 

 to monitor this well enough so that at least in 2 or 3 years we can 

 provide ourselves and you with much more precise answers about 

 what the benefits are. 



Senator Kempthorne. Mr. Chairman, I have one more question, 

 but in light of the time, if you would like, I could submit it for the 

 record. 



Senator Hatfield. Whatever you would like to do. Senator. 



