242 



Horticultural Society and Garden. 



Espionnage. — Extracts from Mr. Lindley's evidence. 



Q. Are you aware whether there was a regis- 

 ter at the garden in which reports were made 

 of the observations made by visitors on the 

 management of the garden ? 



A. They were aut in general terms, — very 

 general terms. 



Q. Describe the way ? 



A. If any body had come to the garden, and 

 had spoken in strong terms of any body, an 

 entry to this effect would have been made ; 

 " Such a person visited the garden, and was 

 attended by such an individual, and he made 

 use of some very strong remarks — very abusive 

 remarks." Mr. Sabine, without knowing what 

 they were, of course would send for the la- 

 bourer, and question him privately as to what 

 had passed ; in short it was a kind of espionnage. 

 It was one of the most monstrous things that 

 were ever put in force. I had a battle about its 

 being attempted to be put in force here, and it 

 is one of the causes, I dare say, why the letter [a 

 letter from Mr. Lindley to;Mr. Sabine, referred 

 to in other parts of the evidence] of October, 

 1828, was destroyed.; for I remonstrated in that 

 letter most strongly against it, as being most 

 improper, and perfectly disgraceful, that such 

 a system of espionnage should be attempted to 

 be put in force; that attempt, therefore, failed, 

 which was made to carry it into effect here in 

 Regent Street. 



a. What ! in Regent Street ? 



A. Yes, but I would not submit to it. 

 ! Q. Was it attempted to establish the same 

 system in Regent Street; that every observa- 

 tion made by the Fellows who came here should 

 be inserted in the Register ? 



A. It was an order for me to keep a journal 

 of the occurrences which passed here ; that 

 journal has been kept, but not in the spirit in 

 which it was intended to be kept. 



Q. In what spirit was it intended to be kept ? 



A. I should note down observations made in 

 the same manner that the people of the garden 

 noted them down. 



Q: Personal observations ? 



A. Yes. 



Q. By personal observations do you mean 

 observations totally unconnected with the gar- 

 den, or with any thing relating to the garden ? 



A. I should not have done so, I know ; but I 

 was to note down what persons said when they 

 came here. 



Q. Supposing a visitor at the garden should 

 have disapproved of a person, and said of one 

 of the officers of the garden that he was " a 

 great fool, a drunken fool ; " would that have 

 been reported ? 



A. That would have been considered some- 

 thing to note down. 



Q. Would that have been remarked upon as 

 a person having said something abusive, or 

 would it have been passed over altogether ? 



A. No ; there would have been some state- 

 ment made, something which would have led 

 to an enquiry. I resisted that system here. I 

 would not submit to it. 



Q.. In short, any conversation of a Fellow of 

 the Society visiting the garden as a visitor 

 would have been reported to Mr. Sabine? 



A. In that way certainly. 



Q. Do you know whether it originated en- 

 tirely with Mr. Sabine ? 



A. There is no question about it all, I pre- 

 sume. 



Q. Was that ever submitted to the appro- 

 bation of the Council or of the Garden Com- 

 mittee ? 



A. I don't know about the Council, but cer- 

 tainly not of the Garden Committee. 



Q. Do you know where that order is to be 

 found ? 



A. I dare say it is to be found at the garden 

 somewhere. I dare say it is there. 



Q. Are those reports kept in a book ? 



A. No ; they are only on sheets of paper, 

 which may be destroyed. 



Q. Those reports were destroyed from day 

 to day then ? 



A. I presume so. 



Espionnage. — Extract from the evidence of Mr. Booth, the Garden Clerk. 



Q. It has been stated to the Committee that 

 the head gardener and the under gardeners, 

 and the labourers who were in attendance upon 

 the visitors, were directed to take notes of the 

 observations that were made by the visitors, 

 and to report the same to the officer of the 

 Society ? 



A. Yes. 



{&. Did those reports pass through your 

 hands ? 



A. They were all made by me. 



Q." Have you made reports of observations 

 that visitors have made frequently ? 



A. Everyday, in a journal called the " Ge- 

 neral Occurrences of the Garden." 



Q. What did you report; what was the sub- 

 ject of the report ? 



A. Why it was mentioned in the copy-book 

 of visitors of the garden. If Sir John Sebright 

 had been at the garden with a party, it would 

 have been stated in this way : — " Sir J. Se- 

 bright visited the garden, and was attended by 

 so and so ; " or, if any particular visit, a mem- 

 ber of the Society, it would be stated " he was 

 attended by so and so." 



Q. " By such a labourer ? " 



A. Yes. 



Q. Well? 



A. If any remarks were made, whether they 

 found fault with the garden, or approved of it, 

 they were noted down, sometimes on paper, or 

 told to me in the afternoon, and sent in to Mr. 

 Sabine. 



Q. If any observations were made upon the 

 officers, or any comments upon the system of 



the garden, were those .observations reported 

 and copied by you ? 



A. Yes; if any visitors made any particular 

 remarks they were noticed. 



Q. Upon the cultivation of the garden ? 



A. Yes. 



Q. Or not upon the cultivation of the gar- 

 den ? 



A. And upon the officers of the Society. 



Q. Supposing a visitor, without making any 

 observations upon the cultivation of the gar- 

 den, had disrespectfully spoken of Mr. Sabine, 

 would that have been reported ? 



A. It would. 



Q. Have you ever known an instance of such 

 personal observations made upon any officer of 

 the Society having been reported ? 



A. Yes ; but I cannot specify any report, be- 

 cause they are given to Mr. Sabine. 



Q. But, in point of fact, you have known 

 personal observations on the conduct of an 

 officer made by some visitors, reported by the 

 labourers, and transmitted to Mr. Sabine ? 



A. Yes. 



Q. Were those observations addressed to the 

 attendant, or did they pass between the visitors ? 



A. Sometimes they were addressed to the 

 attendant, and sometimes they were not. 



Q. Observations between each other ? 



A. Yes. 



Q. Then this attendant was a sort of spy 

 upon the conversation of the visitors, as I un- 

 derstand you ? 



A. In one respect he was a spy, but he was 

 an attendant. 



