Geological Society of London. 137 



especially some of those coloured red by oxide of iron, including the 

 Permian, the Old Eed Sandstone, and a part of the Cambrian. 



Discussion. — Mr. Etheridge thought the question of the nature of the Ehsetic 

 beds was to a great extent Palseontological. The main point in connexion with them 

 was as to how the British beds were to be connected with the Lombardic and Middle 

 European areas. It certainly seemed probable that in this part of the world the 

 conditions of life were different, the deposits being much less in thickness, and the 

 fauna much diminished; and where represented at all, the shells occurred in a 

 dwarfed and stunted form. The exact horizon and nature of the Sutton beds had 

 stUl to be determined. 



Mr. Godwin- Austen believed that every mass of Eed Sandstone would ultimately 

 be referred to either a brackish or freshwater origin. A comparison of the ancient 

 and present area of the Caspian Sea would tend to remove any doubt that might 

 remain on the mind of geologists, as to the possibility of the existence of such vast 

 internal seas as those which had to be called in to account for these formations. He 

 regretted that former observers had not attached more importance to the duration 

 and extent of those freshwater conditions which were found so commonly to have 

 prevailed between the periods of deposit of the great marine formations. There was 

 another fact to be borne in mind, that even in existing lakes, the water at the one 

 end was sometimes completely fresh, and at the other end salt, each of course with a 

 different fauna. 



Prof. Eupert Jones said that although there were good grounds for the lake-theory, 

 something might be said for shallow seas. He remarked that sulphate of lime was 

 deposited from sea- water before salt, that oxide of iron might originate from chloride of 

 iron diffused in water, whether of lakes or seas, and that the haematites of Permian age 

 were probably deposited in the sea. He considered that Foramiuifera required great 

 caution when used as criteria, as the varietal forms giving the facies Avere of more 

 importance than the genera and species. The Estherice were never marine, although 

 often occurring in plenty in temporary freshwater pools on the sea-shore. In his 

 monograph of Estheria, he had said much to substantiate the notion that freshwater 

 conditions often prevailed during the formation of the Keuper. Both in the Old Eed 

 Sandstone of the Baltic provinces, and in the Lettenkohle and Keuper of Germany, 

 when Estheria comes in, Lingula dies out. The repeated set of formations in the 

 Permian and the Trias precludes their contemporaneity, as supposed by Messrs. 

 Godwin- Austen and Marcou. 



Mr. Bauerman remarked that the Hallstatt beds which had been cited as marine, 

 contained large deposits of rock-salt. 



M. Marcou thought that the difficulties in regarding these beds as of freshwater 

 origin were greater than the author supposed. The absence of fossils in gypsum, 

 though almost universal, was not total. He had himself seen three specimens of 

 Trigonia in gypsum from Stuttgart. 



Mr. Tate mentioned the discovery by Mr. Burton, of marine fossils in the Eed 

 Marl, in one instance in combination with vegetable remains. He commented on 

 the sharp demarcation observable in Ireland between the Ehsetic beds and the Marl 

 below, whereas it was almost impossible to separate them from the Lias above. He 

 doubted, however, whether the true relations of the Ehaetic beds were to be worked 

 out in this country. As to the fossils of the Sutton Stone, they were all pui-ely 

 Liassic. 



Mr. Burton stated that the fossils from the Eed Marl came from a spot about five 

 miles from Eetford, in the direction of Gainsborough, but he had not seen them in 

 situ. There are, however, no Ehaetic beds within some miles. 



Eev. Mr. "Winwood, in the absence of Mr. C. Moore, from ill health, inquired 

 whether the author regarded the White Lias as Ehsetic or Liassic. 



Professor Eamsay, in reply, was quite willing to accept marine fossils as coming 

 from the Eed Marl. The fact oi Estheria, a brackish or freshwater form, occurring 

 in certain bands, was in favour of his views, as he considered that at intervals the 

 freshness of the water in such a lake as he had suggested must have varied. He 

 could not accept the probability of oxide of iron having been deposited in a large sea 

 area to such an extent as to colour the sands. All rocks that could be proved to be 

 of marine origin, even when they contained iron, were not stained red unless by 

 infiltration from above. H e pointed out that the old area of the Caspian was far 

 larger than the lake in which he had suggested that the New Eed Marl had been 



