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JOUKNAL OP HORTICULTmiE AND COTTAGE GAKDENER. [ Febraary 21, im. 



whether trne or horn'<r the Aiiditorg, who are respectable 

 gentleman, had cortilied that they were ti'ue accounts. It 

 is altogether misleading the Society to say our income is 

 only ioODO and our outgoings .£15,000. It is no such 

 thing. If you look no the present mode of working the 

 Society, the cxponso-; are between i;l:;,000 and ,£13,000 

 a-year. The incom'o last year, putting- aside other things, 

 was very close upon that sura. Hopes are entertained that 

 our exhibitions may improve a little, and while the expen- 

 diture is put down at jfilS.OOO or Xli.OOO the income is cal- 

 culated to amount to the same sum. This gentleman, I 

 have no doubt, is a great debenture-holder, and thinks it 

 will give that body some encouragement to-be always tell- 

 ing them they lU-e in great jeopardy ; but his statement is 

 whoUy fallacious on that point. Of course the debenture- 

 holders know the property of the Society, and the loss upon 

 the property, upon these groundo down here ; and therefore 

 I say, it is a misrepresentation to endeavour to alarm the 

 debenture-holders by telling them theii' interests are in 

 jeopardy. 1 think my observations have answered that 

 gentleman (Jlr. Weston), who read us his observations. He 

 thinks great mischief will result from our connecting the 

 Kensington Gai-dens with the Commissioners of 1851. I have 

 already shown you the Kensington interest has paid off the 

 Chiswick debt [No, no]. I maintain that is the fact. I have 

 shown you were in debt. The facts are these, as stated in 

 the Report, that you never had Chiswick in so productive 

 and well-managed a condition as at this moment. I chal- 

 lenge anybody to say that within their recollections of Chis- 

 wick, Chiswick was ever so productive to the interests of hor- 

 ticulture or of seeds for the members as at this moment. If 

 I am wrong I can be proved to be wrong. The figures show 

 the value distributed over tho various members. You will 

 recollect that in 1859 a Committee was formed, of which I 

 daresay Mr. Godson was a member, in order to sell off Chis- 

 wick, but the result of the establishment of this unfortunate 

 Kensington has been that Chiswick has been saved, and 

 not only saved, but put into a better position. As for the 

 gardens here, Mr. Godson alluded to them as fit for a ceme- 

 tery. They may look as a cemetery, but it is possible he 

 may not be so clear in his vision as other people. But even 

 if they have the appearance of a cemotei'y, they recommend 

 themselves to the public, as is abundantly proved by the 

 members increasing their subscriptions — perhaps with a 

 view of being buried there. There is the fact, that the 

 members are increasing, and that the number of persons 

 frequenting the Chiswick gardens are increasing every year 

 four times what they were before the Kensington interest 

 went into partnership witli Chiswick. I therefore demur 

 altogether to the motion brought forward by Mr. Godson, 

 and hope the members will give it a decided negative. 



Mr. Clutton. — In looking to the capital account, I find 

 that these gardens were originally formed by means of life 

 members. I find that the life-members* subscriptions 

 amounted to i.'17,000 originally, of which the greater part 

 was invested in the formation of these gardens. It is cpiilo 

 true that last year we had a considerable sum invested in 

 debentures, of which we have about £2000 now invested. 

 The remaiud';r has been spedt, as the former sum of jB17,000 

 was spent, in the formation of these gardens. It was scarcely 

 possible when these were first formed, as everybody knows 

 who ha.s to create a garden, at once to do all that was ni'ces- 

 sary. In fact, you cannot get trees to grow, you cannot 

 plant a garden all at once, and erect arcades and buildings, 

 and, tli'-refore, it was thought liy the present Council that 

 now was the time when tho gardens required additional im- 

 provement and upenditnre, and upon that rocommondaUon 

 they have invested a considerable portion of these life com- 

 positiong. 'J'here is not! ing in the Charter or bye-law.s to 

 prevent the expenditure of these life compositions. A similar 

 thing has been done in the Hotanic Society; therefore. I 

 am not aware that anything improper or inconsistent has 

 been done in including these liie compositions in our ae- 

 ooants. They have been spent, !i« all former capital has 

 been Kpent, in the improvement of these gardens, and not 

 in ordinary erpendilure. Mr. Glutton then went on to say, 

 that the holding of exhibitions on Saturdays miglit bo the 

 secret of the Jiotanic Society's success. In this Society there 

 was a great objeciion to Saturday. Ho confessed that the 

 accounts might Vx; remodelled with advantage, and he ex- 



pressed a hope that that would be effected, but those pre- 

 sented were at the same time perfectly correct. 



Mr. A\'. Wilson Saundekk said the Commissioners of 1851 

 had met this Society in the most li-icndly way possible. 

 Wlienever they wanted money, or in any way to improve 

 their property, the Commissioners had manifested a 

 liberality which he had never before known in landlords. 

 The Commissioners not only displayed a most kindly spirit 

 towards this Society, but evidently wore actuated by the 

 sincerest sympathies in tho science of horticulture. 



Mr. THRiNii said he was a Commissioner of 1851, and a 

 debenture-holder and subscriber in this Society. At the 

 same time he was perfectly independent of the Council, on 

 which he never sat, but he fully approved of their proceed- 

 ings. They were told by Mr. Weston that the Commis- 

 sioners absorbed the Horticultural Society. It was absolute 

 twaddle. It was, perhaps, unfortunate that the Commis- 

 sioners had entered into partnership with this Society; it 

 was certainly very unprofitable. Tliey had done everything 

 to assist the Society ; the other day, only, they granted them 

 ^£13,000. Still, if it were not for this constant " nagging," 

 this discontent, they would get on very well together. If 

 tho gentlemen who ought to support the Society, however, 

 found fault with everything, and accused the Council with 

 dishonesty and of a want of truth, they could not go on — 

 no society could go on under such circumstances ; and 

 he trusted, therefore, tliis meeting would give the moat 

 emphatic negative to Mi'. Godson's motion, which was, in 

 fact, a vote of censure on tho Council ; and if it was a vote of 

 censure, it would be very much more manly on the part of 

 those who supported it to say so — to say that their intention 

 was to turn out the Council. As ho said before, all of them 

 whobelonged to a club know there was nothing so iniurious as 

 constant squabbling, constant quarrelling, and attempts to 

 upset tho .authorities. He had no interest whatever in the 

 matter, but he did advise tho Society, as ho had advised — nay, 

 implored — other societies when disturbed by similar motions, 

 to refuse to entertain any such motion — to refuse to pass a 

 vote of censure unless there was a charge of absolute fraud 

 made out against those who were put in power. What did 

 Mr. Godson propose to do ? To appoint five gentlemen who 

 should examine the accounts from the beginning of the 

 world to tho present day? Really, were they going to be 

 fools enough to sanction any such proceeding ? and if, as 

 Mr. Godson stated, they were in a state of insolvency, were 

 they going to be fools enough to publish the fact to the 

 world \' There was never anything fo monstrous. When 

 tlie Commissioners first took to the Society, it undoubtedly 

 was in a bankrupt state ; but now, by whatever moans — 

 whether through the assistance of the Commissioners or 

 not — it was flourishing — it was doing niTich better than it 

 had done — it had excellent gardens, and afforded a consider- 

 able amount of gratilicatiou to tho public, let alone the 

 eminent services it rendered to horticultixro. Mr. Godson 

 had put his motion in an obnoxious form, and, in speaking 

 upon it, had made use of terms which ought never to have 

 been addressed to a society such as this. 



Mr. Weston remarked that ho distinctly stated, on rising 

 to second Mr. Godson's motion, that ho did not agree with 

 many of his observations. He had not tho slightest inten- 

 tion of imputing fraud against any one ; on the contrary, 

 he Ijciieved tlio Council had faithl'uUy performed their duty. 

 Ho lepc.ited that he did think the Horticultural Society did 

 wrong in connecting itself with the Exhibition of 1851. 

 The Commissioners had certainly done their duty in trying 

 to prop up the concern : at the same time he did not think 

 the interests of horticulture wci-e benefited by such assist- 

 ance. He considered the gardens were not in the right 

 place for horticulture ; they ought to have confined them- 

 selves to Chiswick, which was in a much more favourable 

 position for the iiurposo. Ho did not know tho name of the 

 gentleman who had just spoken (Mr. Thring), but ho hod 

 spoken rather too warmly on the subject. 



Mr. .James Hateman was glad Mr. Weston had taken tbo 

 opportunity of disclaiming any sympathy with tho remarks 

 of Mr. Godson, to which he (Mr. Bateman) had listened with 

 very great pain. He was not prepared to dispute thoii' 

 accuracy in every respect, but tho animus of opposition to 

 tho Society and tho Council, which seemed to dictate 

 the remarks, was painful to observe. Now, Chiswick wa» 



