AngnBt 10, 1876. ] 



JOUBNAL OF HOBTIOULTUKE AND COTTAGE GABDENEB. 



117 



The President. — At the present moment I do not know what 

 is the opinion of the meeting on this question. I assure you 

 there is nothing would give me greater pleasure than to find 

 this large sum was due to us by the Commissioners. I ameer- 

 tainly glad to say we have some claim upon them, but it is 

 impossible for me to hold out any hope of there being a success- 

 ful result to euch an investigation as that which has been pro- 

 posed. At the same time it is not for us to resist any proposal 

 which comes from the Fellows. I would much rather they were 

 freely given to the Council [hear, hear]. I have been informed 

 that the whole of the arcades were built at the expense of the 

 Commissioners, and you heard, no doubt, of the agreements 

 which were entered into. By the first agreement there was, as 

 a matter of fact, £50,000 spent upon the Society. Then £70,000 

 was raised by life subscriptions, and in addition there was the 

 sum of £60,000, consisting partly of donations, and that was 

 spent upon the capital expenditure of the Society. Then, on 

 the other hand, the Commissioners themselves having expended 

 their £40,000 sought fresh powers to raise an additional sum of 

 money, and it was in consequence of that the annual expendi- 

 ture, the rent paid to the Commissioners by the Society, which 

 stood at £2145 per annum, was raised to £2400. With regard to 

 the future, that is a question I should be very sorry to refer to, 

 especially as it is impossible to say what the conditions of the 

 future may be. As I take it, there is no use in referring to what 

 was done with respect to the Society ten or fifteen years ago. 

 Let all that be buried; but I am sorry to say, although I can 

 well appreciate the motives of the mover of the resolution, that 

 I cannot hold out to you the very faintest hope that any good — 

 that any practical result will arise from the appointment of the 

 committee of investigation which has been proposed. I cannot 

 Bee that it will lead to any useful or practical result. It might 

 do some good with respect to small Bums, but as to these large 

 sums referred to by the mover of the resolution, I cannot hold 

 out the slightest prospect of any substantial result — any sub- 

 stantial benefit coming from the adoption of the resolution, 

 which, I have no doubt with the very test intention, has been 

 submitted to you. It iB, however, for you, gentlemen, to say how 

 far it meets or does not meet with your approval. 



Mr. H. Guedalla. — My lord, I take it that we are met here 

 "to protest in the strongest manner possible, to protest against 

 these magnificent gardens being closed without an effort — a 

 great effort on our part [hear, hear] . The recommendation sub- 

 mitted to you now is that a committee of the whole house 

 should be appointed in order to have — not a committee of five 

 only, but a mixed committee, composed of horticulturists and 

 residents of the neighbourhood. "In a multitude of counsellors 

 there is wisdom " [hear, hear] ; and this committee could very 

 well consider whether we should separate the Chiswick Gardens 

 from the South Kensington connection, and also report upon 

 the nature of the attractions which would be likely to ensure 

 to us an increase of revenue. It is, I must say, a very astonish- 

 ing thing that a kindred institution to this is able to keep itself 

 above board, I mean the Botanical Gardens, and that chiefly 

 through the influence of Prince Teck. These gardens of ours 

 are totally neglected by royalty [hear, hear]. I am sorry to say 

 that, in consequence of a vote given against the Council Borne 

 years ago, we turned royalty against us. Why in a learned 

 society like this should we not be received by our worthy Presi- 

 dent ? I should be glad, my lord, to see you holding a recep- 

 tion. I consider you cannot discuss the improvements it is 

 necessary to make in our arrangements until the Fellows are 

 prepared ( o talk the matter over, and that can best be done by 

 a committee. I hold that we should not, after an existence of 

 twenty-five years, allow the gardens to be closed, especially as, 

 if the matter was calmly discuBsed, we must eventually get 

 money from the Commissioners. From many points of view it 

 is most desirable that these gardens should be kept up [hear, 

 hear]. For my own part I always had a shrewd BUBpicion that 

 the Commissioners had ulterior views with respect to these 

 gardens [cries of "hear" and applause]. I think that in con- 

 junction with the debenture-holders — and I think we should 

 cement a union with them — and with the residents in the neigh- 

 bourhood, and by providing proper attractions we would gain 

 an immense increase of revenue ; and if there was any possi- 

 bility of our working in unison with the Commissioners, through 

 which we would be again favoured by royalty, in a few seasons 

 we should be all right again. Something has been said as to 

 the sum requisite to keep the gardens up to the end of the year; 

 I should like I know what that sum is. 



The President. — At the present scale of our expenditure, I 

 think the sum requisite would be about £2000. 



Mr. Guedalla. — Well, that is a very Berious sum of money. 

 J should propose that a committee of nine, composed of the 

 variouB classes of horticulturists and Fellows, be appointed for 

 the purpose of a general investigation of the accounts and affairs 

 of the Society, and of securing to us these gardens. 



The President. — I wish at once to say this. I hope the meet- 

 ingwill disembarrass themselves of the idea that there is any 

 desire on the part of Her Majesty's Commissioners to obtain 



possession of these gardens. If there is anything they are 

 anxious for in the matter, it is that the Boyal Horticultural 

 Society should flourish and fulfil the original intention of its 

 founders ; but, as to the possession of the gardens, I can assure 

 you it iB not a question with them at all. My belief is that the 

 Commissioners would like to open a sort of square. Now, in a 

 very good-tempered sort of way, a gentleman suggested that the 

 Fellows did not see as much of the President as they desired ; 

 but I am informed that only on one occasion was there a recep- 

 tion of royalty, and that was unfortunately in the absence of the 

 President. 



Mr. Liggins. — I assure you, my lord, I have had the oppor- 

 tunity of being received by his Grace the Duke of Buccleuch. 



The President. — Everyone who knows the extreme courtesy 

 of the Duke of Buccleuch must feel what a pleasure it was to 

 have been received by his Grace, but I was told at the Council 

 there was but one attempt made at a " reception." 



Mr. Liggins. — I remember the reception by the Duke of Buc- 

 cleuch as well as I do seeing your lordship to-day, and our most 

 honoured guests were the Prince of Wales and the Duke of 

 Edinburgh. 



The President. — Oh, that is quite sufficient. Ton state to 

 me what you saw, and that is worth fifty other statements which 

 perhaps are only mere rumours. 



Mr. Godwin. — I should like to aBk your lordship whether the 

 Council have prepared any definite plan to lay before the Fellows. 



The President. — The Council have done their best, and have 

 no further proposal to make. 



Mr. Godwin. — In that case there is nothing further to be done 

 but to appoint a committee and go on with the business our- 

 selves [hear, hear]. 



The President. — The question before the meeting now really 

 is whether the committee proposed is to be appointed. 



Several Fellows. — No, no. 



Mr. Shirley Hibberd. — Why should such a committee be ap- 

 pointed ? Its deliberations would lead to nothing [hear, hear]. 



The Hon. C. S. Butler. — As the statement made by your lord- 

 Bhip evidently expresses the unanimous opinion of the Council 

 I think to appoint a committee would be simply stepping out of 

 the frying-pan into the fire [cries of "hear."]. I do not think 

 any committee could make a better business of the matter than 

 the Council. The appearance of the gardens is more like that 

 of a cemetery than of the gardens of a horticultural society [a 

 laugh]. They looked as if we were determined to die respect- 

 ably [laughter] ; and undoubtedly it is better to die in a quiet 

 and respectable manner before disgrace is brought upon us. 

 [hear, and a laugh]. Therefore to appoint a new committee 

 would be of no earthly benefit [hear, hear]. The only way is 

 to die respectably. Let these gardens be made public gardens, 

 and not have them gardens which must cast gloom and melan- 

 choly upon anyone unfortunate enough to go into them [laugh- 

 ter]. It does not appear that your lordship or the Council have 

 any proposition to make to us. 



The President. — I have distinctly stated what is the policy 

 of the Council, and, moreover, I have stated that the Council 

 have no feasible proposal to place before the Fellows, 



Mr. C. Morgan. — One great result, my lord, will be obtained 

 from what we may call the crisis which has taken place, and 

 that is that we shall feel it incumbent on us to make a great 

 effort to keep these gardens, at least for the use of the inhabitants 

 of the neighbourhood. I feel that some further exertions should 

 be made by us, and if nothing better is submitted to us I should 

 certainly vote for the suggestion of the honourable proprietor to 

 appoint a committee. 



Lord Alfred S. Churchill. — The Chairman has explained to 

 you the financial position of the Society. The ordinary expen- 

 diture of the Society has hitherto been something like £5000 

 and over or £6000. Ton have got £1000 left, and of course it 

 will be the object of the Council to spin that amount out to the 

 end of the year as well as we can ; but even then, in order to 

 keep the gardens going, we must make a great reduction in our 

 expenditure. I may say that the gardens will not be actually 

 closed [hear, hear], and that one entrance — one only — will be 

 kept up. The expenditure on the gardens will be reduced to a 

 minimum — of course it must be. I should like to observe that 

 at the time your Chairman made an appeal to you some months 

 ago our average income amounted to about £7000, or indeed I 

 may say a little over. By the noble Chairman's appeal it was 

 proposed to raise the income of the Society to £10,000 a-year in 

 accordance with the arrangements made with the Commissioners, 

 and although the meeting to which I refer was strongly in favour 

 of this course, there was great difficulty in even attempting to 

 carry out the proposition ; and for this reason — that when it 

 came to the point nobody could be found willing to go round to 

 the houses, because there had to be made a sort of ad misericor- 

 diam appeal, and the result was that many members left the 

 Society and sent in their resignations. I was induced to join 

 the Society, but I joined it from a horticultural point of view, 

 and I thought at the time that the period had arrived when an 

 absolutely strong alliance would be cemented between horti- 



