GAME REFUGES. 41 



Looking at it from the standpoint of meat producing, I agree with 

 Mr. Mondell. I consider that one good cow is worth several head of 

 deer or elk. Several times in handling this matter we have been 

 compelled to go into some national forest in a Western State and 

 throw out as many as 20,000 sheep to make room for a few hundred 

 elk. It always hurt me, for I always felt that the sheep were pro- 

 ducing something which was of an economic value to the country 

 and should always have the preference up to a certain point. I do 

 not irean to say that I would wholly wipe out the game in favor of 

 the settlers' stock. There is a reasonable limit that we have endeav- 

 ored to arrive at in handling this matter. 



The only point I wish to clear up is this: One of the States, without 

 consulting us, without notifying us, without asking us "Will it suit 

 your plans, will it meet the demands of the grazing men for their 

 stock?" will pass a law designating as a game preserve any portion 

 of our forest which they choose, nine times out of ten without any 

 satisfactory boundaries and without any maps to show where it lies, 

 and then say to us, "Enforce it." We are compelled to go into 

 these game preserves and outline them, send our rangers to post the 

 boundaries, and put up signs so as to protect the citizens in hunting. 

 We are also compelled to enforce the law, because the State men 

 seldom come in there to see to it. Those laws are frequently changed. 

 Often the first we know of the passage of a game-preserve law is when 

 we see it in the papers. We have to write to every State legislature 

 at the close of their session and ask the chief clerk for copies of 

 measures affecting the ranges inside the national forests. In two 

 western States last year they passed game-preserve bills which were" 

 impossible to lay out, simply because their boundaries were so un- 

 certain and indefinite. The whole thing amounted to nothing and 

 we could not protect them. In one western State the law allows any 

 board of county commissioners to lay out game preserves in their 

 county to suit their ideas. These are frequently changed and gen- 

 erally so crudely drawn that we are unable to locate them or the 

 forests. 



Mr. Reilly. How will this law remedy that situation ? 



Mr. Barnes. It will do away with the States making these pre- 

 serves and give us the right. We would not do away with the game 

 preserves, I think we would make more, but before we made them we 

 would know the area on which the preserve should be laid out in 

 order to meet the demands for the protection of the game, as well 

 as for the settlers stock. It would give us the power to say where 

 the game preserves should be in the forest. 



Mr. Reilly. How many States have already marked out game 

 preserves as contemplated by this bill ? 



Mr. Barnes. I know every western State in the country, and not 

 over three of the States have ever taken any steps to mark the 

 boundaries; they have left it to us. 



Mr. Reilly. How many States have made out the outline of a 

 preserve and completely marked it? 



Mr. Barnes. I think I am safe in saying not a single one. We 

 meet this question every year. The stockmen demand the range 

 and the game men demand that the stock be kept off the preserves. 

 We nave had no voice in the matter of laying out and marking them. 



