GAME REFUGES. 43 



preserve over everything without regard for the settler or anything 

 else, and we were obliged to prohibit grazing because there was a 

 certain responsibility to protect the game. That could have been 

 arranged by the State authorities, calling on us for advice, and they 

 could have laid out a much smaller area. We meet just such admin- 

 istrative difficulties in handling this matter. We have no control. 

 The State does not consult with us and there are frequent changes of 

 which we have no information. 



Mr. Reilly. I can not see how this bill is going to relieve you. 

 If you gentlemen locate a game preserve that is too small the legis- 

 lature will go on and locate a larger one. This bill does not destroy 

 the power of the legislature to increase the game sanctuaries in size? 



Mr. Barnes. I do not think it would. 



Mr. Reilly. You would still have the same difficulties about ad- 

 ministration ? 



Mr. Barnes. We might have, but the States have always been 

 fairly willing to accept our advice. They do not object to our helping 

 them. The States did not object when the Government appropriated 

 money to purchase lands in the Jackson Hole on which to raise hay 

 for the elk; they took it very kindly. It now costs the Agricultural 

 Department about $2,000 a year for the men employed to look after 

 these lands, and they yearly put up large amounts of hay to feed the 

 elk. If the States found that we were laying out the game preserves 

 so as to meet the situation from the game men's point of view and to 

 interfere as little as possible with the stockmen, I think they would 

 give up any attempt to force their own preserves onto us; I am quite 

 sure they would. 



Those are the only points that I wished to call attention to as a 

 practical stockman. I am for the game, and do not want to see it 

 wiped out. I do not believe in rubbing them off the map just because 

 the stockmen want to graze some sheep. There is room for both. 



Mr. Jacoway. You say there is not room ? 



Mr. Barnes. No; I say there is. The laws passed by the States 

 are often very peculiar. They are passed by members of the State 

 legislatures, who are mainly absolutely ignorant of the true condi- 

 tions. Our men are posted and know every nook and corner of these 

 forests. They know where the stock can go and where the game can 

 go. When we call on them for a report we get the exact facts. When 

 we decide to set aside an area in the forest as a permanent game pre- 

 serve for the protection of game animals and to give them sufficient 

 land on which to graze, we draw lines which will meet those conditions 

 and after careful study the lines are established. Those are the main 

 points. We only want to be relieved of this embarrassing situation, 

 which we believe this bill will materially remedy. I have no further 

 criticisms. 



Mr. Mondell. I would not take up the time of the committee 

 further, except that in a way, as I have heretofore said, I am in a 

 position that is not entirely free from embarrassment. A very 

 considerable number of very fine people in my State, men and women, 

 public officials and others, have, by signing a petition, indorsed 

 what is known as the Hornaday plan. It is true that this followed 

 the visit from Dr. Hornaday. The people admire him for the work 

 he has done and his enthusiasm for game. He spoke very kindly 

 of what we had done up to that time, just a little more so than to-day. 



