MINUTES OF EVIDEXCE. 



10. So that does not take up any appreciable quantity 

 of the time either of yourself or your assistants 1—^0. 

 A very small sliare of our time, and that cliielly on Satur- 

 days. 



11. Does that apply botli to the popular instruction 

 and to the more distinctly educational use of the collec- 

 tioai ?— It applies to it so far as vre are personally in rela- 

 tion with the public. As to the time we have to spend 

 in arranging and re-an-anging the galleries, and maliing 

 the cases, I am afraid it takes a good deal of our time. 

 Under tlie pohcy of Sir William Flower that side of our 

 work in tlie Museum was veiy much encouraged and 

 advanced very greatly to the good of the teaching collec- 

 tions and to the good of the public itself, who appreciates 

 it, as is to be seen by the larger number who visit our 

 galleries. 



12. Tour efforts are being continued in that direction, 

 so that we may say an appreciable proportion of your time 

 is now taken up in preparing these galleries for pubbc 

 exposition and for educational use ? — A very considerable 

 proportion of tlie time of the staff has been taken up in 

 recent years in carrjing out tliis policy w"hich S'ir Wiliiaim 

 Flower" introduced, and it has involved a great deal of 

 — not so much re-airangement — ^labelling. That has con- 

 sumed a great deal of time, especially in those cases 

 illustrating adaptations of plants. That, I may say, has 

 taken up a good deal of my time, but I anticipate it 

 ■will not take up so much after the next year or two. 



13. You think it is approaching completion?—-! think 

 that in the course of the next year or two it will be in 

 euch a state that we .shall only have to keep it going in- 

 stead of going in for extensive alterations. 



14. You are now going to apeak with regard to the 

 popular exposition and the educational use to students 

 who want to learn Botany for examination purposes ? — 

 That is restiioted entirely to the gallery. If a student 

 a/pplies to me for a student's ticket for access to the 

 library, and confesses he is going to use it for the pur- 

 pose of passing an examination, I invariably decline his 

 eppHoatdon, or I persuade him, rather, not to apply for 

 it, because there are institutions w'here he may be taught 

 botany close at hand. We, as a public institution, 

 cannot compete with teaching agencies. 



15. May I, in relation to that, ask exactly what the 

 sentence means in (2) of III. : " Special exhibitions 

 bave frequently been made on bedialf of situdents at the 

 Royal College of Science and University College." Do 

 jou mean that exhibitions have been made at the Museum 

 for students of those colleges ? — Yes. It began with Dr. 

 Scott, who was one of the Professors of Botany at the 

 College of Science. He gave advanced courses of in- 

 struction w'hioh were iuadequateily illustrated by material 

 at his command, and by arrangemeint with him we very 

 frequently made a special exhibiition from our resources, 

 limited to a day, and allowed him to conduct his own 

 students through, sometimes with a httle aid from our- 

 selves. I made similar exhibitions for Professor F. W. 

 Oliver at University College. But these are only done at 

 the request of the teacher, because there is a certain 

 amount of risk in exposing a great number of the speci- 

 mens. 



16. Then we are to understand that for students who 

 are preparing for examination, and so on, the oppor- 

 tunities offered are confined to the galieiies? — Yes, with 

 those small exceptdons whioh I have noted. 



17. Then whaA have you to say with regard to research, 

 taking that in its wide isense of anyome who wasihes to 

 make inquiries of any kind, to learn certain facts in 

 botany independent of examinations '? — The Institution, 

 the Herbarium, and the Library, are entirely at the dis- 

 posal of such students, as well as the services of the staff. 

 We have students of various degrees of expertness. Pro- 

 fessional botanists who are engaged in -wTiting a mono- 

 graph come to the Ubrary attendant, who knows where to 

 iind a book, and saves them a great deal of trouble. Such 

 a man borrows books by card just as if he were a member 

 ■of the staff. There are others not so expert, for whom a 

 good deal of the staff's time is required in finding speci- 

 mens, but not explaining them. That is really the main 

 work of the staff, that and naming and incorporating 

 new coUections for that purpose. 



18. May we distinguish in this latter class between 

 the man who comes simply to identify a plant which he 

 has and a man who is engaged in some botanical problem, 

 grreat or small ? — ^We may distinguish between them. 

 The man who is engaged in a botanical problem takes 

 practically no time of the staff, but the man who comes 



'199; 



.1/;-. G. Ji. M 



Murray, 



F.U.S. 



to identify a plajit, or make some casual inquiiy, verj- 

 frequently takes up a good deal of our time. 



19. As a matter of fact, some considerable portion of 



the time of yourself or of your assistants is taken up in j ^^^^^ '^^^ 

 lielping persons to identify plants by means of the her- ' 



barium I — Certainly. 



20. And do all the members of tlie staff take part in 

 that according to tlie particular plant which is in quos- ■ 

 tion '? — Yes. 



21. In your answer to Question VH. (2) you give a list 

 of visitors to the Herbarium for consultation and re- 

 search. Does thai include these two classes of which you 

 have just been speaking? — It is entirely confined to 

 those two classes. Every man signs his name in a book, 

 and at the end of a stated period, generally a monfh, I 

 go through those books myself, and carefully take out 

 all responsible people's names. I know most of them, 

 or I inquire of my staff. I take out all those naanes and 

 report only tlnjse who have actually come for consulta- 

 tion and research at the end of my niontidy report to the 

 Trustees of the Museum. 



22. In arriving at your number how do you treat the 

 case of a man ^^"ho is consulting the lierbirium in con- 

 nection with some complicated problem, and who visits 

 it every day for a long period ? — I count his daily visits. 



23. So that these numbers given in sub-section (2) of 

 YII. are daily visits ? — ^Yes, daily or casual visits. 



24. Have you any means of knowing the number of 

 persons who have -vdsited the Herbarium in the year for 

 the purpose of research? — It woulld be quite possible to 

 make such a return. I could get the information quite 

 eas-iy, because, as I say, every visitor signs his name. 



25. What is the relative proportion of the two classes, 

 the man who simply comes to identify a plant, and the 

 man who comes for what may be called more serious re- 

 search? — That would be an extremely difficult question 

 to answer off-hand. I could find out the exact figures. 



26. We only want it quite roughly. Are there as many, 

 for instance, visiiting the Heiibarium for the simpie pur- 

 pose of identifying a plant as for contiaued research, or 

 are there more or fewer? — Speaking quite irresponsibly 

 at the present moment I should say the numbers were 

 very nearly equal, but if you will give me time I can send 

 you the exact figures for a year or; severaJl years. I shouid 

 t^e. it that they are very nearly equal. 



27. I see that in the year 1875 the number was 1,118 ; 

 in 1881 it has dropped to 704 ? — ^Yes. That figure is very 

 easily explained. In 1881 we were engaged in moving 

 the coiileotions from Bloomsbury to South Kensington. 

 For the greater part of two years the Herbarium could 



be easily consulted, but it was in a state of re-arrange- 

 ment, and naturally the number of visitors dropped. 



28. So that the normal figure for that period appears 

 first in the year 1883 ? — I should say so. As some 

 sort of guide to the previous question you asked me, 

 I might say that the 704 during that year were nearly 

 always serious botanists, as the casual visitor had not yet 

 found his way to South Kensington. 



29. In VII. (1) you speak of a Guide to the British 

 Mycetozoa ? — You asked me a question under IH. and 

 IV. which has not yet been answered (unless you wish 

 to postpone it) as to the work of the department being 

 pure and not applied botany. With regard to that, I 

 should say that questions constantly come to us in ap- 

 plied botany, economic botany. People come from the 

 City, importers of drugs and plants, and where we can 

 answer them we do so. Many of those questions many 

 botanists might answer off-hand, but if it is a serious 

 question of economic botany I invariably refer the ap- 

 plicant to the museum staff at Kew. Casual questions 

 we deal with as any botanist can deal with them, but 

 we make no special arrangements for them, and have 

 no collection illustrating economic botany. If such a 

 collection came into my hands I should forward it to Kew. 



30. The time talcen up by the members of the staff is 

 to a smai'l extent devoted to popular exposition and in- 

 struction ? — To a small extent. 



_ 31. And to some extent preparing for popular exposi- 

 tion ? — To a larger extent than the first. 



32. And to a still larsrer extent assisting enquirers and 

 answering enquiries ? — Yes, both personally and by letter. 



33. Then there remains what may perhaps be called the . 

 main work, the naming and arranging of the specimens?* 

 — That is certainly the main work. 



