10 



DEPARTMENTAL COMMITTEE ON BOTANICAL WORK: 



Mr. G. R. M. 



Murray. 



F.R.s. 



1 Nov. 1900. 



IDermission of the Trustees I allowed him a large 

 measure of leave. After reporting himself in the 

 morning he would frequently go to Kew for the whole 

 day. 



120. And has it been the same in their coming to you? 

 — Undoubtedly. Last week I had three members of 

 the Kew staff working at the same time in the depart- 

 ment, while two of my people were at Kew. 



121. In connection -with the work of your assistants, 

 have you any rules with regard to their doing research 

 work? — The doing of research work is not recognised at 

 all by either institution, but the men, of course, cannot 

 be held back, and in the naming of new collections of 

 plants, when new things come up, they very frequently 

 work extra time by way of preparing papers to be pub- 

 hshed by the Linnean Society, or in other periodicals. 



122. You do allow them to work extra time 1 — ^Yes, but 

 they are not paid for it. 



123. They work of their own accord? — ^Yes ; they may 

 stay as long as the place is open, and do so, but the 

 Trustees do not empower me to engage them in original 

 research. They are not paid for that in any way. 



124. When they are laying in specimens that have not 

 already been incorporated, do they identify them always 

 before laying them in, or do you just put them into 

 before laying them in, or do you merely put them into 

 their genera ? — We identify them. Nothing is put into 

 the study series without being identified, unless the cir- 

 cumstances are exceptional. Formerly the things were 

 put in at the end of the genus, but we discourage that 

 now so much that that accounts to some extent for the 

 150,000 plants that are mentioned. 



125. {Chairman.) What do you mean by the study 

 series ? — The general herbarium. 



126. {Professor Balfour.) With regard to your acces- 

 sions is there a large number of duplicates in the col- 

 lections that you buy 1 Probably, may there not be in 

 a collection only two or three specimens you really 

 want, and thus the bulk of it be duplicates? — We 

 rarely make purchases on such conditions, but bequests 

 practically sometimes contain a proportion very much 

 like that. 



127. Does Kew do the same? — It has the very same 

 practice, I understand. 



128. Does it ever happen that you and Kew come into 

 competition for collections? — In my own time I cannot 

 recall such a thing. In the very first days of my respon- 

 sibility there was a case in whicji certain questions arose 

 as to whether we should have the first set of a collection 

 and Kew the second, or the other way about, and it was 

 settled by Sir Michael Foster in an interview which we 

 had with him at the Royal Society. You will remember, 

 sir, it was the Scott Elliot collection. There we were 

 able to make almost two equal sets ; there was very 

 little to choose between them, and both parties were 

 satisfied. 



129. I suppose it is on the ground of your being able 

 to distribute a number of these duplicates to different 

 institutions that you refuse to students the right of 

 coming into the herbarium to work, using the term 

 student in the sense of men who want to work up for an 

 examination ? — I would not for a moment remain respon- 

 sible for the direction of any herbarium to which a student 

 in that uneducated state had access. There would be 

 disorder and destruction constantly. Moreover, a her- 

 barium is an instrument of research, and not one for 

 teaching students, I take it, unless in a very limited 

 degree, the degree being quite well known to you, sir, 

 as I understand you use to some extent herbarium speci- 

 mens for teaching. 



130. Would it be possible to have, if you found the 

 demand was sufiicient, a students' herbarium, or do you 

 trust to the student seeing these things in the galleries ? 

 — I trust to them seeing these things, as far as possible, 

 in the galleries, and I have always encouraged teaehers 

 to have at hand a small herbarium for teaching purposes 

 in the institutes of which they themselves are ser\-ants. 

 In the Public Gallery there is a set of British plants 

 illustrating the whole of the British flora, from the 

 flowering plants right down to the fungi, so that a student 

 who wanted to name a British plant has only to go there 

 to do it. By providing that, I have kept down the num- 

 ber of visitors for consultation and research, because we 

 keep no record of those who visit the Public Gallery. 



131. {Chairman.) Can he examine specimens? — -Yes, 

 he can name his plant just as well there as inside. 



152. {Professor Balfour.) In the galleries you have 

 apparently arranged a systematic collection, having 



first of all a series of plants arranged according to the 

 Genera Plantarum in the several families, and then 

 you have this series of illustrations of the British flora. 

 Now you are developing a morphological and oecological 

 collection ? — Yes. 



133. How far do you intend ro go with that? — All work 

 in connection with the morphological collection has been 

 stopped since the appointment of the present Director of 

 the Museum, under whose charge it is. It was never 

 under the Keeper of Bot^any, but always under the 

 Director of the Museum, and the annual vote for its 

 maintenance and progress was made to the Director. The 

 actual scientific responsibility cf it was committed to the 

 Keeper of Botany, but a special man was employed by 

 Sir William Flower, and paid by him. It was always 

 understood, however, that he would appeal in 



any difficulty to the Keeper of Botany for advice, 

 and that this assistant should be accommodated as 

 far as possible with specimens and material 

 from the duplicate material in the botanical 

 department, and that so fax as supervision went the 

 supervision should be exercised by the staflf of the De- 

 partment of Botany. The expense was to be borne by 

 the Director, in whose department it was included, and 

 he had charge of the funds. It was the wish of the 

 present Director that that should not be developed, and 

 as he had charge of the funds it has not been developed 

 since then. 



134. Practically that work is stopped just now ? — ^Yes, 

 for the last eighteen months. 



135. You are referring now to the work in the mor- 

 phological section in the Central Hall?— Yes, and that 

 only. 



136. The oecological series, such as the illustration of 

 the climbing plants, is entirely yoars?— Yes, and that 

 I am developing, and it will be only limited by the cases 

 I can get. 



137. Would you yourself like to see the morphological 

 series extended? — I deplore very greatly its being 

 stopped. 



138. I notice that in the collection in your galleries 

 you have a great number of models of plants ; do you 

 prefer this method to actual plants in fluid ? — ^I find that 

 people are attracted more by them, and while specimens 

 in fluid with illustrative draivings would be preferred by 

 a botanist who is pursuing a line of inquiry, we have to 

 a certain extent, in making things attractive to the public, 

 formed a popular exhibition. We have to make it as 

 bright as possible, and we must appeal to that part of the 

 public. We must not in any way throw an obstacle in the 

 way of anyone inquiring into the subject, and it has seemed 

 tome that the models, although they are expensive 

 things, have a great advantage in that they have attracted 

 people. 



139. Then the reason of adopting that system has not 

 been from any difficulty in getting fresh material? — Not 

 at all. The models have been made in every case from 

 fresh material. 



140. How do you distribute your assistants between the 

 work in the Museum, the Galleries, and the Herbarium? 

 — Sometimes some members of the staff may go on for 

 a year or two without doing any work in the Galleries 

 at all, being continuously employed in the Herbarium. 

 I like to save them the gallery work as far as I can. In 

 the last few years the youngest member of the stafi' and 

 I have practically done the whole of the gallery work to 

 save the time of the others in the herbarium. 



141. Is there any other public institution in London 

 with an exliibition like yours ? — None. 



142. Li the Royal College of Science at South Kensing- 

 ton they have a teaching collection? — A teaching collec- 

 tion to which students who are either Science Depart- 

 ment students or paying students' alone have access. It 

 is not a public institution in any sense. 



143. Your museum, if it were completed on the 

 lines that you wish, both the morphological and oecolo- 

 gical sections, would practically supply all that is 

 wanted by the students of the Royal College of Science 

 in that line? — ^Certainly it would. 



144. Have you any system of distribution of dupli- 

 cates? — ^There is no system. People who desire dupli- 

 cates of a particular collection, or from a particular 

 area, make application by writing to me, and I con- 

 sider the question as to whether they would be well 

 bestowed in this particular place, or whether I can get 

 anything in exchange for them, or whether the ex- 

 change would be adequate, and I report in one of therie 



