MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



11 



senses to the Trustees. No duplicate may be taken out 

 of the Museum without their sanction. 



145. You refer to the well-equipped laboratory that 

 you have in the building ; that, I suppose, is for work 

 in connection with your cryptogamic plants? — ^Almosv 

 entirely, but not wholly. 



146. And any work done in that is entirely of a 

 systematic character, is it not? — 'Almost entirely. Occa- 

 sionally a morphological point crops up, the solution of 

 which presents an irresistible temptation, and there- 

 fore it is settled, but the work is almost entirely 

 systematic. 



147. Then the morphological side is not the promi- 

 nent side ? — Xo, nor is it the aim of the Department to 

 do that. The laboratory, I may say, has been useful 

 as a factory so to speak, in making these exhibitions, 

 particularly the morphological exhibition which is in 

 the hall at present. 



148. Do you prepare microscopic preparations for 

 your collection in the laboratory? — Frequently, but 

 that work, of course, is irregular, depending upon the 

 collections which are being incorporated. 



149. (2Ir. Darwin.) Can you tell me how far the ex- 

 hibition of objects in the public galleries, the educa- 

 tional series, compares with those m similar museums 

 elsewhere in other parts of England and Europe? — I 

 should find it exceedingly difficult to answer that ques- 

 tion, there are so many excellent collections, but I 

 think they are of smaller scope as a rule. Ours is 

 larger and perhaps fuller, and in many respects we 

 have tried to make it a little more attractive, particu- 

 larly from the point of view that was involved in my 

 answer to Professor Balfour. We have had command 

 of a little more money to do it, and we have been able 

 to make good models to illustrate things in a more 

 attractive way. 



150. In these collections do you aim rather more at 

 the learner who has some knowledge of botany, than 

 at what may be called the man in the street ? — We have 

 aimed more in recent years, I think, at the man who 

 has been taught a little botany, and we have worked 

 along lines which have, I believe, been parallel with 

 those of the usual course of instruction in botany. 

 There still remains a certain number of specimens which 

 might attract without perhaps instructing very much 

 the man in the street. 



151. I rather wanted to make out your point of view 

 with regard to one of the questions Professor Balfour 

 asked. Does not the fact that you aim at the man 

 with some botanical knowledge accentuate your regret 

 at not being able to extend the morphological section? 

 — ^Tes. I should be very glad to do so. It is not com- 

 plete in many of its details. As a matter of fact it is 

 my present intention to offer to complete that out of 

 departmental funds if the space will be left to me. 

 But that is a matter on which I must address the 

 Trustees. 



152. Is it possible to say how far the daily work of 

 yourself and your assistants includes the dealing with 

 plants that have come straight from the collector, and 

 been through no other hands before ? — ^Yes ; that 

 varies also from time to time. Collections straight 

 from the collector, which are not named, take a very 

 much greater time to deal with than the named ones, 

 but, on the other hand, the men naturally are exceed- 

 ingly eager to get such collections, because it gives 

 them an opportunity of describing new forms, and at- 

 tracts them, and adds to our knowledge of the dis- 

 tribution of plants, and so on. Perhaps more time is 

 given to that than ought to be given, but that is in- 

 evitable in any herbarium where trained men of science 

 are worKng. It varies constantly from time to time. 

 I am very much struck by the way the matter is 

 managed in Berlin by Professor Engler, and I have 

 endeavoured in the last few years to organise the work 

 of the men as a whole, to concentrate it, and, so to 

 speak, throw it at a single object. In taking a collec- 

 tion in hand I prefer to have it done straight away. 

 Rather than let one man be describing a casual bit of a 

 collection from one part of the world, and another 

 another, I have tried to bring the forces together, so to 

 speak, and enable a man to address himself to one 

 particular thing, if necessary, at a time. I am very 

 much struck with the success Professor Engler has met 

 with in that, and I endeavour to imitate him. 



153. I also wanted to ask how far what might be 

 called semi-incorporation of two herbariums is possi- 

 ble. Supposing all your cabinets from the British 



34 99. 



Museum were moved bodily, and placed in a building ^r r 7? m 

 which formed part of the Kew Herbarium, would not i/™ 

 that be an extreme advantage to workers at Kew frs 

 without involving a very great outlay ?— Ultimate in- — ' 



corporation, I take it, would be inevitable. I have 1 Nov. 1900. 



heard it very strongly advocated by a well known 



botanist that there would be a very great advantage in 

 mere proximity, without the collections being incor- 

 porated, and I pressed him for reasons, which he gave 

 me. This botanist, was anxious that this should be 

 done. He was a consta.nt visitor to both institu- 

 tions, and he told me that he himself would Imd it a 

 great advantage, because it was near his place of 

 abode. On the other hand, he was exceedingly disap- 

 pointed at having to live out of London at all, and he 

 only lived near Kew because he had to do so. He pre- 

 ferred that the collection should be in London. Possi- 

 bly this gentleman may give evidence, and so I do not 

 give you his name, but I merely state that as an illus- 

 tration of the point. 



154. (Mr. Spring Bice.) With regard to the question 

 of cost, discussed between you and Lord Avebury, I did 

 not notice that you made any allowance for the fact 

 that if you could in one way or another throw the two 

 herbaria into one you would be able to eliminate a 

 very large number of duplicates ?— Yes, if they were in- 

 corporated, but if they existed side by side, as Mr. 

 Darwin has suggested, those duplicates would not be 

 eliminated. If they were to be incorporated ultimately 

 a large number of duplicates would be eliminated, but 

 the question of what is a duplicate would be an ex- 

 tremely serious question. Botanists have worked at 

 our herbarium, and at the Kew Herbarium, and they 

 have based their determination of plants on the 

 specimens in' both institutions. They have written 

 their opinions on the sheets of the actual speci- 

 mens, and although they may be the same thing 

 from the same place, they must remain and be 

 kept as monuments of the opinion of these 

 botanists. The plants examined by Sir Joseph Hooker 

 in one institution, and by Robert Brown in another, 

 can in no sense be considered duplicates ; both must 

 be kept to illustrate their determinations and remarks. 

 But even then there would still remain a considerable 

 elimination of duplicates. 



155. But not so many as would appear at first sight? 

 — Not by any means. There are almost as many 

 opinions as to what is a duplicate as there are 

 botanists. 



156. Taking the present state of the two herbaria, 

 the one at Kew and the one at the British Museum, 

 there is no attempt, apparently, to treat them on dis- 

 tinguishable lines ; each of you get as many additions 

 as you can ? — Yes, we each of us get as many additions 

 as we can. There was one answer I gave to Professor 

 Balfour which I think is incomplete. He asked me if 

 there was any rivalry. I think there is a certain 

 amount of healthy rivalry, but there is certainly no 

 competition in the ordinary sense of the word. The 

 fact that there are two institutions makes us both, 

 perhaps, look out a little more sharply for collections 

 than we otherwise would. If we existed without com- 

 petition we might lapse. The present condition of the 

 Paris Herbarium is a very good illustration of that. If 

 there was some competition in Paris possibly the Her- 

 barium there would awake. The British Museum Her- 

 barium was in a somnolent condition at one time, until 

 the establishment of Kew w-oke it up. 



157. I was asking with a view to results, because 

 you mentioned that with regard to India, Kew was 

 stronger than you are? — ^Undoubtedly. 



158. And possibly for some other part of tiie world 

 you are stronger than Kew? — ^Yes. 



159. Is not the position even more complicated than 

 that? Is it not quite conceivable that you have some 

 Indian plants which are not in the Kew collection? — 

 Yes, certainly, I have not the slightest doubt that we 

 have Indian types they have ifot got, but a compara- 

 tively small number. 



160. And perhaps vice versa with regard to Aus- 

 tralia? — Yes. There is that sort of overlapping prac- 

 tically all over the world. 



161. So that' if a student wishes to specialise about 

 Indian flora, in the first place you have to advise him 

 to go to Kew? — ^He generally resides there, because 

 Kew is so valuable to him. We may take Mr. Clarke, 

 for example, as an Indian botanist, whose principal 



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