MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



15 



that a man who had been to Switzerland and collected 

 a number of plants and wanted to know tlieir names, 

 might take them down and compare them with the 

 Swiss herbarium, and thus name his plants liimself. 



227. Would YOU allow these herbaria to be freely 

 used by the public, without any restriction? — I would 

 not allow them to take pieces off and carry them 

 away. 



228. But is it not possible that a person unaccus- 

 tomed to the use of dried plants would very speedily 

 do a great deal of injury? — I daresay he would, but 

 plants are not expensive. You can buy a very com- 

 plete flora of Switzerland for a very small sum. 



229. You do not think there would be any advantage 

 in having, cither in place of the arrangement you 

 propose or in addition, a herbarium arranged not 

 geographically, but, for instance, according to the 

 orders, and so on? — That would be provided in the 

 big herbarium, wherever it is to be. 



230. But supposing your herbarium was at Kew — I 

 am not speaking now of the herbarium which would 

 be used by scientific botanists, but a herbarium which 

 would be used by a person wishing to identify a 

 plant — do you think that your geographical arrange- 

 ment would be perfectly ample for that, that there 

 would be no advantage whatever in having one ar- 

 ranged according to natural orders? — I do not think 

 so, because that is provided already at Kew. Of 

 course, inside the geographical arrangement you would 

 have the systematic arrangement. The plants of Swit- 

 zerland would be arranged in the Natural Families, 

 the Eanunculaceae. for example, in one place, and the 

 dififerent species in separate covers. Each hei^barium 

 would be completely equipped as far as it went, but I 

 would not mix them. 



231. Then there are at the British Museum certain 

 historic heirbafria', the pre-Linnean herbaria, lor 

 example ? — In my opinion, all the historic herbaria, 

 all the herbaria with types, ought to be with the 

 general collection. I do not know whether the 

 Linnean iSociety might be got to transfer the 

 Linnean collections, but if so, so much the better. I 

 would have everything in one place. 



232. And you think that in the interest of botanical 

 science and all that depends upon botanical science, 

 the steps which you are recommending would be 

 justifialDle, even if they entailed very considerable 

 expense ? — Certainly ; the expense would be nothing. 



233. You do not think the expense would be very 

 great? — Certainly not. I do not know anything about 

 the estimates for the buildings, and so on, but it 

 need not be great. 



234. We have now, as you are aw^are, the two 

 institutions, and it has been represented that that is 

 an advantage in this respect, tliat the competition in- 

 creases the activity of the one place or the other ; 

 that the activity, for instance, at Kew favours activity 

 at the British Museum, the one does not wish to be 

 out-done by the other, and that really in that way 

 one gets more scientific work than one would in a 

 single establishment where men would be left entirely 

 to themselves ?— Speaking generally, there are great 

 uses in a little emulation, but I have not lived steadily 

 in England, and I do not know the conditions. I could 

 -not form an opinion on that point. I have worked 

 at intervals when I have been at home on furlough, 

 but I cannot say what the state of matters is in that 

 direction. 



235. Then I understand this is your view, that it is 

 most desirable in the interests of botanical science 

 that the present General Herbarium at the British 

 Museum should be moved bodily to Kew, and, so to 

 •speak, interpolated by arranging all the cabinets in 

 -the herbarium there ?— Either by that or by sheets. 



236. Or you would be satisfied with their being 

 •placed together in two contiguous buildings?— I would 

 not be so well satisfied. 



237. You would not be so well satisfied, but that 

 ^ould be desirable? — ^Yes. 



238. There would be a very great difference between 

 that and your plan of arranging the cabinets in prox- 

 imity in the same building? — There would be a decided 

 advantage in interpolating sheets, putting the specdm.ens 

 -together. 



239. You think there is a very great difference be- 

 3499. 



tween having tlie two herbaria in two contiguous Sir G. King 

 buildings, and your plan, not of absolute incorporation, k.c. i.K. 

 but of having the cabinets put side by side? — Yes, there k.r.s. 

 is a great difference. 



240. A very great difference ?— Yes, a very great ' Nov^^^lOOO. 

 difference. The diff'erence between walking from that 



picture on the wall to the next one on the wall, and 

 between going to another room or to another building 

 altogether. 



241. That, I imagine, would necessitate new build- 

 ings at Kew altogether? — Certainly. The present 

 herbarium at Kew is stuffed so that you cannot move 

 in it. 



242. In any case you think that an increase of 

 buildings is required at Kew, even if no amalgamation 

 takes place? — Most certainly. The present building 

 at Kew is much too small. The accretions are so great, 

 and come in so steadily, that I do not see where the 

 plants now coming in can be put. 



243. These steps having been taken, you think there 

 should be arranged either at Cromwell Road or in the 

 Royal College of Science — somewhere in London, of 

 ready access to those living in London, without any 

 railway journey — a general herbarium arranged geo- 

 graphically ? — ^Yes. 



244. Which can be consulted without any stint by 

 anyone wishing to do so? — Yes. I would, however, rather 

 that things stayed as they are if there is not to be a fire- 

 proof building erected. At present the coliections that are 

 housed in the British Museum are comparatively safe 

 from fire, but the collections at Kew are exposed to 

 fire every minute of the day. If there is to be no 

 provision of a proper fire-proof building I would not 

 have any change at all. Not having any change, leaves 

 you one part of your collection safe. If you put all 

 the things at Kew in a building of the sort the present 

 collection is in, then you put all your collections into a 

 very dangerous position as regards fire. If I were not 

 absolutely sure that a really good-fire-proof building 

 was to be put up, I would say let things remain as they 

 are. 



245. Have you any idea of what would ibe the expense ? 

 — -Not the slightest idea. I have a general impression 

 that the expense would not be great. 



246. Wliat do you mean by great?— £150,000, but I 

 do not know. I am not a builder, and I have not the 

 slightest idea. We put up an excellent fire-proof build- 

 ing in Calcutta, absolutely fire-proof, for about £3,000. 

 But what your prices are in this country I have not the 

 slightest idea, and I would not venture to offer any 

 opinion about the price. But if the new building were 

 to cost £150,000 I think it would be cheap. The Kew 

 collections are the finest and most valuable botanical 

 collections in the world. For a nation such as we are, 

 rolling in wealth, to niggle over a couple of hundred 

 thousand pounds is contemptible, I think. 



247. How long has the hei<barium existed in Calcutta 

 in the present building? — ^About 15 years. 



248. Was it erected under your supervision? — ^Yes, 

 after seeing Kew. 



249. And are you satisfied with it? — ^Perfectly satis- 

 fied. 



250. Li many respects, in its arrangements and so on, 

 it might be spoken of as superior? — It is fire-proof. 



251. In other respects ? — In other respects it is well 

 arranged. It is a building from my designs, so that per- 

 haps I ought not to say much albout it, but it is designed 

 after the Kew galleries. The flooring of the galleries is 

 iron. 



252. The chief feature, you say, is that it is fire-proof ? 

 — Yes. That is the only feature I claim any merit for. 

 The British Museum galleries I should think are pretty 

 nearly fire-proof. 



253. Is the table space adequate at present at Kew ? — 

 Not at all. The new building ought to j^rovide large 

 table space. Many more tables are wanted for laying 

 out large collections. There is now no room tO' lay 

 them out, and you cannot see things. 



254. You are speaking now of what ought to 'be in any 

 herbarium ? — ^Yes. 



255. Is there table space at the British Museum? — 

 Not enough. 



256. And you say it is conspicuously absent at Kew ? — 

 Yes. Originally there was space in the middle of the lower 

 floor, but that is all filled up with calbinets. The table 



