24 



DEPARTMENTAL COMMITTEE ON BOTANICAL WORK : 



Mr. E. M. 

 Holrties, 



F.L.S. 



8 Nov. 1900. 



439. Would j-ou propose to leave the fossil plants in 

 the British Museum ? — I really have not thought about 

 the matter at all, hut I think they should be where the 

 most complete collection is, and that, I presume, would 

 be at Kew. 



440. Yoa -R-ould transfer the fossil plants to Kew as 

 well as the existing plants ? — I think that Kew should 

 represent, as far as possible, all that is known of plants. 



441. Would not that be very inconvenient to the 

 fctudent of palaeontology. At present the fossil plants 

 are with the fossil animals 1 — Would not they have a 

 coUeotion at the Geological Museum ? 



442. Are you aware that there is no such collection at 

 the Geological Museum? — I was not aware of that, but 

 I should think that is where one ought to be. 



443. If by the Geological Museum you mean the 



museum of the Geoiogical Society, it has no oo'llection? 

 — I should have thought that would be the proper place. 



444. {Chairman.) Do you not mean the Geological De- 

 partment of the British Mus-eum ?- — I should have said 

 perhaps a geological museum. 



445. (Lord Avcbury.) Do you think there would be a 

 great practical disadvantage in separating the fossil 

 plants from the fossil animals ? — I should think for 

 the purpose of botanica' students and for the scientific 

 purposes of systematic botanists it would be better to 

 separate them. That is my own opinion, but I am not a 

 student of fossil botany. 



446. That is the present aiTangement, and you are pro- 

 posing to alter it. At present the fossil plants are in the 

 palseontological galleries of the British Museum, but yru 

 are proposing to transfer them from the palseontological 

 galleries to Kew, where they have no other fossils ? — ^I 

 was not aware that they were in the Geological Depart- 

 ment of the British Museum. I am not prepared to say 

 much about geological botany. 



447. Tou do not know what would be the effect on 

 geology of the separation of the fossil plambs from the 

 fossil animals ? — For geological purposes it seems to me 

 the fossil plants would be better in a geological miiseum 

 than a botanical one. 



448. Tou said just now that you woaiid transfei' them 

 from the Natural History Museum to Kew ; that would 

 be taking them away from a geological musexim and 

 transferring them to a botanical museum ? — ^If that would 

 be an advantage to botanists I think they should be at 

 Kew. If not they should be at the geological museum. 

 But as I say, I am not prepared to give an opinion be- 

 cause I have not studied fossil botany, and I cannot give 

 a practical answer at all. As far as my own personal ex- 

 perience goes, I have never had to refer to them, and 

 therefore they are of no use to me in a Botanical Depart- 

 ment. But. theoretically, I should think that where 

 plants are represented as a whole there should be a collec- 

 tion of fossil plants as well as other plants. But I do not 

 feel competent to offer any opinion on that matter. 



449. Tou said just now that you took a species which 

 you thought was Sinapis to the British Museum, and 

 they were not able to identify it there? — That is so. 



450. Have you taken it to Kew ? — No. 



451. Tou spoke of a very important collection in the 

 British Museum which you said nad been lost sight of. 

 Would you mind telling the Committee what collection 

 you are referring to? — It was looked at by a friend of 

 mine, and I am afraid I cannot tell you the name off-hand. 

 It might have been Forster's, but I would not like to 

 speak positively. I can furnish you with the name later 

 on in the day. 



452. Perhaps yon wiU ascertain it and put it into your 

 evidenoe? — ^I will. 



453. (Sir John Kirh.) Tou live, I beHeve, out of 

 London ? — ^Tes. 



454. And you consult Kew rather more than the 

 British Museum 1 — Tes. 



455. Is it a more tedious journey or more troublesome 

 to get to Kew than to get to the British Museum ? — No ; 

 it is easier if anything. I simply change at Waterloo 

 and go to Kew. 



456. So that when you are living ia the Southern 

 Counties it saves tim e ? — I save time. 



457. Tours, I beli3ve, is chiefly economic botany con- 

 nected with drugs?- -Not purely. For instance. Captain 

 Burrows broiight me a poisonous plant from the Congo, 

 and I get a great many things from abroad. 



458. Do you make use of the living plants frequently 

 at Kew ? — Tes ; only the other day I wanted to find a 

 Cactus which was not in the herbarium, and I found it 

 in the collection. 



459. Do you find it an advantage to have the her- 

 barium close by the living plants ? — Certainly ; it is a 

 saving of time. 



460. Otherwise you would have to go from the Gar- 

 dens after consulting the living plants to the Museum I 

 — No, not usually. 



461. Do you ever consult the economic collection of 

 drugs, fibres, and other products in the Museum at Kew, 

 the medicinal or economic plants ? — Tes ; such as would 

 come under the class of drugs, resins, dyes, and articles, 

 of that kind. 



452. Do j-ou have to identify the plant yielding those 

 products at all ? — Tes. 



453. For that you require, I suppose, the herbarium ? 



— Exactly. 



454. (Frofessor Balfour.) Tou spoke about having a 

 key collection or reference collection kept in London 

 after the other things were moved, and you said " In the 

 City." Did you contemplate any other place except Crom- 

 well-road ? — All I know is that it is a great inconvenience 

 as a rule to City men who wish to identify anything — and 

 they get a great many products from abroad — to go ta 

 the British Museum, because in the first place very often 

 tiiey cannot get the things identified there. They have 

 generally, as a rule, to be sent to Kew. But I think 

 if there was what I might call a commercial museum, 

 in the City where things of that kind could be shown, 

 it would be a great advantage, and if there was also a 

 collection of all economic, medicinal, and fibrous plants 

 in the City it would be a very great advantage, not 

 only to science, but to commerce. 



465. It is the case at present at the Cromwell-road 

 Museum, that they do not take any account of economic 

 botany at all ? — ^Is it not the case that economic things 

 are all left at Kew ? — So far as I know. 



466. Kew does the economic work, and the museums at 

 Cromweli-road are mainly for teaching and study ; is not 

 that the idea you would gain from looking at them ? — I 

 should think so. I do not know. 



467. Are you not a teacher in London now ? — I taught 

 botany at Westminster Medical School for some years, 

 but I do not do so now. 



468. Have you ever taken your pupils to the British 

 Museum ? — ^No. They used to go to the Botanical 

 Gardens at Regent's Park to study the plants there, but 

 now the students have the plants brought to the School, 

 and have to dissect them, and use a microscope for 

 them at the School itself. Some of our men go in for 

 the B.Sc. Examination, and then, of course, plants 

 are asked about which are not of medicinal interest, 

 and they sometimes go to the Botanical Department 

 at South Kensington to see if they can find a specimen 

 in the outside room. 



459. Tou have taken a great deal of interest in the 

 arrangement of herbaria, and their utilisation. There 

 is one point that crops up in connection with both the 

 British Museum and Kew, and that is, that when they 

 receive new collections of plants these collections are 

 gradually laid into the herbaria, and the specimens are 

 as far as possible identified. New specimens are de- 

 scribed, but they are usually published, are not they, 

 in the jDublications of Societies ? — I believe so, in the 

 first place. 



470. Do you think that that is a good way to have our 

 National collections utilised ? — Do you not think that 

 they might be utilised in a better way than that? — ^I 

 think so, tmquestionably. It seems to me you are 

 obliged to get the transactions of various societies 

 when you want to find anything, for instance, if you 

 want to find the "Flora of China." Those things 

 ought to be published at the national expense. 



471. Have you found inconvenience from that? — Cer- 

 tainly. I have had to hunt through journals, and find 

 out where the things are described. The Chinese 

 Flora, for instance, runs through two volumes of the 

 Linnean Society's Journal. 



472. Tou have given a great deal of attention to 

 cryptogamic botany, have you not? — ^A good deal. 



473. Where do you find the best collections, at Kew 

 or at the British Museum ? — I do not think there is 

 any comparison. At Kew the specimens have been 



