26 



DEPARTMENTAL COMMITTEE OX BOTAXICAL WORK : 



Mr. E. M. 

 Holmes, 



F.L.S. 



8 Nov. 1900 



to the specimens ? — I am onlj- giving him as an instance 

 of a thing that crops up in all sections of Cryptogams. 

 I an merely saying that the pablic who go there re- 

 quire help. 



491. Do 3-ou mean to say that it is a very frequent 

 occurrence in the Xatural History Museum that several 

 different species are on the same sheet, and wrongly 

 named 1 — I will say two or more different species on the 

 same sheet. 



492. Do you mean it often happens that two or more 

 species are on the same sheet ? — ^Yes. 



493. {Chairman.) I sliould Eke to be quite cleat 

 with regard to the fossil plants. 1 understand you to 

 be of opinion that if there were one collection, for in- 



stance, at Kew, speaking as a botanist, you would like 

 to see fossil plants there too ? — ^Yes. 



494. But you yourself have not sufficient knowledge 

 of either palaeontology or geology to give an opinion aa 

 to whether it is desirable that the fossil plants should 

 be retained in connection with the geological speci- 

 mens, or transferred to the botanical collection ? — I 

 have no critical knowledge of fossil botany at all. Of 

 geology I have only a slight knowledge, but that know- 

 ledge would lead me to say there ought to be in the 

 National Geological Department, wherever that may 

 be, a collection of fossil plants as well as at Kew, if it 

 ba possible. 



[Supplementary Observations by this witness will 

 be found in Appendix III.] 



Mr. Fkedeeick JjlA'SOn Hanbuet, f.l.s., called; and examined. 



Mr. F. J. 



Hanhvri/, 

 F.L.S.' 



495. {Chairman.) You are Managing Director, I be- 

 lieve, of Allen and Hanbuirys ? — ^I am. 



496. And you are part author of "The Flora of 

 Kent " 1—1 am. 



497. And you have a very considerable critical know- 

 ledge of the British forms of the Genus Hieraciuml — 

 I have to some extent. 



498. And you are the possessor of the British and 

 European herbaria formed by the late Mr. Boswell? — ^I 

 am. 



499. You have paid very considerable attention to 



botanical science ; have you made use both of the 

 herbarium of the British Museum, and the herbarium 

 at Kew ? — -Very little of Kew, but a good deal of the 

 British Museum. 



500. When you consulted the herbarium at Kew, was 

 it for a different purpose, or different reason, from 

 those which led you habitually to consult the herbar- 

 ium at the British Museum ? — No. I merely went there 

 to see if it gave me any additional localities or threw 



- any light on the Hieracia, after I had looked through 

 . most of the British Museum things. But I found 

 much more difficulty at Kew, because the herbarium is 

 a general herbarium of the world, and it is like looking 

 for a needle in a haystack to work there. What I wanted 

 was more of a local herbarium. 



501. Were you studying British plants? — Yes. 



502. And for that you found what you required at 

 the British Museum ? — ^Yes, I found it very much more 

 ■convenient. 



503. You have not received any great aid from Kew ? 

 — No. I ought not to speak disparagingly of Kew, 1 

 have used it so little, but I really do not get any 

 valuable help there for the kind of work I want. 



504. Are you in a position to form any opinion as 

 to whether it is desirable to maintain the two collec- 

 tions, the one at the British Museum and the other 

 at Kew, in their present condition? — Speaking per- 

 sonally, and also from remarks miade by many friends, 

 I should 1-ke to have them b»th maintained. Tftie chief 

 thing is that for busy people the British Museum, 

 although less accessible than it was when at Blooms- 

 bury, is far more accessible than Kew. If one came 

 from abroad to study a particular thing, and could 

 take a lodging at Kew, that would be a different 

 matter, but if one has only an hour or two to find 

 out some point, it is very much easier to get to South 

 Kensington. It is much more central for everyone, 



_I think. 



505. Would you regret the transference of the main 

 ■.collection of the British Museum to Kew? — ^I should 

 -regret it very much indeed. 



506. But you would approve of the transfer from 

 Kew to the British Museum, as being a more central 

 situation? — No. I think Kew wants a herbarium for 

 reference — it is absolutely necessary. You want two 

 kinds of herbaria, the one they have at Kew, which 

 is a herbarium of the whole world systematically ar- 

 ranged, and a more specialised herbarium for people 

 wanting to work at the floras of certain districts. The 

 British Museum has a most excellent British Herbar- 

 ium, and there is nothing of the kind at Kew beyond 

 the hbi-barium left by Hewett Cottreil Watson, which 

 is a most scrappy herbarium for showing the distribu- 

 tion of plants, and not at all good for study. 



507. Do I understand that it would meet your view if 



the collection at Kew were maintained, and possibly 

 increased by the transference of certain specimens 

 from the British Museum, provided there were left 

 at the British Museum a complete British Herbarium, 

 and also a Geographical Herbarium? — I cannot say 

 to what extent the one herbarium would be robbing 

 of the other. I do not see any objection to that so 

 long as a really good herbarium for people who want 

 it for reference and study,., is left in a more accessible 

 position at South Kensington. I saw a qiiestion about 

 the types. I should see no objection if it is desired 

 to keep them together at Kew, so long as there is a 

 really reliable reference herbarium left at the British 

 Museum. 



508. It would meet your views if there were at ivew 

 a complete collection with all the type specimens, 

 provided there were left at the British Museum a suffi- 

 cient number of herbaria, British and other, to meet 

 the demand of busy men living in London? — Yes, 1 

 think so, so long as we could equally rely on the 

 specimens left at the British Museum being correctly 

 named. 



509. Authentic, but not typical? — ^Yes. I do not 

 know whether it is competent for me to bring forward 

 another little matter. I think we are lamentably 

 v.'anting in the British Museum some real authority on 

 all our own critical plants. It is really badly wanted. 

 Anyone who has got the grasp of the flora of the world 

 that our great botanists have, admits that it is absolutely 

 impossible to keep pace with the critical work in the 

 more difficult genera like Rubus, Bosa, Hieracium, 

 Willows, and things like that. I do think we ought to 

 have a first-rate British botanist who would save many 

 people a great amount of trouble. I get flooded with 

 parcels of Hieracia from all parts of the country, and am 

 asked to name them. I really canuiot do it, and I 

 am obliged to send them back. I do think the nation 

 should provide someone who is really an expert on our 

 own native flora. It is not, I think, saying anything 

 derogatory to the botanists we have at the Museum, and 

 I think they would be the fixst to acknowledge that they 

 are not up to such work, and that it is a really crying 

 want. I thought I would mention it to the Committee, 

 because it is in the mouth of every working botanist 

 in the country what a need there is of an expert to 

 whom they could refer specimens. As it is, wo now 

 have to send critical plants to particular men who pri- 

 vately make a study of them, and ask as a favour to get 

 our things looked at. 



510. An expert at the British Museum ? — -I think he 

 would be more useful at the British Museum, because 

 a good British Herbarium is at present there, and 

 working country botanists who have a few hours in 

 London run up to South Kensington, who could not 

 go to Kew. 



511. {Lord Aveiury.) You said you found it very 

 convenient having a collection' at South Kensington, 

 and would very much regret its being transferred to 

 Kew. Do you think that would be the general feeling 

 among London botanists, and those who come up from 

 the country ? — I am sure it would be. Men like my 

 friends Mr. Marshall, or Mr. Linton, and others who 

 come to town on special business, and manage to 

 bring with them from Bournemouth and other places 

 a little parcel of plants that they want to compare, 

 run down to the Museum, and catch their trains much 

 more easily than if they had to go to Kew. 



512. If I understand your view correctly, I think 

 you would not object to what we call the typical 



