28 



DEPARTMENTAL COMMITTEE ON BOTANICAL WORK 



Mr. IV. 



Fawcett, 



B.SC, F.L.S. 



8 Nov. 1900. 



the CiLtish Museum? They would have to go there to 

 see certain specimens ? — Yes. 



539. And vice versa? — Yes. 



540. So that there would be a great deal of cross work 

 between the two, no doubt? — If Kew confined itself 

 to colonial floras, there would not be the same necessity 

 for people working at the British Museum to go there. 

 Of course they would have to go to see the collections 

 they have already there, but I think they would be pro- 

 bably in both places. I think it is a very great advan- 

 tage to have the two establishments, because the 

 Director of one and the Keeper of the other are in touch 

 with a difi'erent set of people, and may get collections 

 which othei-n-ise they might not get if there were only 

 one establishment. 



541. Why should not the Director of the United 

 Esitablishment be in touch with them all. He would 

 get the past connection, if the two things were amal- 

 gamated through the previous ofiicers ? — Very often i'', 

 is a case of personal regard. I know, for instance, 

 that when Sir William Hooker was at Glasgow he had 

 a great many collections there from old pupils all over 

 the world. They sent them to him because they knew 

 him and had been taught by him. I daresay it is the 

 same with you at Edinburgh. 



542. Do you think if you combined the two herbaria 

 it would be hurtful to the national collections, and 

 that they would not get the same collections as they 

 'have hitherto ? — I think so. It would be better if the 

 other herbaria, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Oxford, &c., were 

 made and kept up to date, so that there would be a 

 multiplication of work going on. 



543. You would like to have decentralisation rather 

 than centralisation ? — Xot exactly decentralisation, but 

 an improvement in the herbaria in other centres. 



544. If you have new collections at Oxford or any 

 -' these places, would not that interfere very much 

 with the convenience of workers in this country? A 

 person who is engaged upon a monograph would first 

 have to go to Kew and the British Museum, as he has 

 now, and then he would have to go elsewhere? — He 

 has now ; he has to travel all over the Continent. 



545. And you would increase that within the bounds 

 of Great Britain ? — I think it would be worth while. 



546. In the case of the flora of tropical Africa, which 

 oa-n be hardly called a colonial flora, .wihat would you do 

 with that? — I would have it worked at the British 

 Museum, I think. 



547. Not at Kew?— No. 



548. That is to say, you would have the work over- 

 lapping. At the British Museum they might be doing 

 the tropical African flora, and at Kew they would be 

 doing the floras of colonies that come into tropical 

 Africa, and so you would have the work twice done by 

 different men? — ^Yes. 



549. Would not that be very inconvenient? — I do 

 not know that it would be ; I cannot see it myself. 

 The flora, for instance, of the West Coast of Africa, 

 which consists of different tropical regions, might be 

 worked up in districts, and I do not think it would 

 interfere with the large flora. In fact, I think it would 

 have to be done in that way. 



550. (Mr. Darvyin.) You were speaking of the idea 

 of limiting Kew to the colonial work ; would not that 

 be a very serious loss to the general breadth of some 

 of the work thait has gone on at Kew? If that had 



been done in past times, for instance, one would not 

 Qiave a Genera Plantarum ? — I did not mean to limit 

 work to that, but I thought special attention should be 

 paid to the colonial floras. 



551. You mean without checking the other line of 

 work ? — Yes. 



552. You said that you did not see that the British 

 Museum and Kew interfered with each other, but I do 

 not think you referred to the question whether the 

 existence of the two is a serious interference with 

 botanical work. How far, in your opinion, is it a 

 hindTance to, at any rate, rapidity of work? — There is 

 a certain amount of loss of time in going from Kew 

 to the British Museum. 



553. Did you not find that you had to carry your 

 actual siJecimens backwards and forwards between cho 

 two places to compare them ? — I did. 



554. That was at any rate inconvenient? — Yiss ; I 

 have to carry certain specimens. I did not require 

 to carry the whole lot down to Kew. 



555. {Mr. Spring Bice.) Taking your own view as to 

 what the distinction between the two should be, would 

 you press it to the conclusion that a suitable collection 

 intended for the nation should be so to speak com- 

 pulsorily assigned to a more suitable place ; for instance, 

 a colonial collection to Kew, and not to the British 

 Museum? — I do not quite understand. 



556. You are aware that at present, without saying 

 that the two departments compete, they each get what 

 they can without any appreciable discrimination, and 

 it is quite a matter of chance Avhether a given collection 

 of a given traveller goes to Kew or to the British 

 Museum ? — Yes. 



557. If your view were carried out, that Kew should 

 in the main specialise on oolonial floras, would you 

 pursue that to the conclusion that the traveller wlm 

 presented a colonial collection to the British Museum 

 should have his collection handed on to Kew, or would 

 you leave the present haphazard state of things ? — A 

 traveller always collects more than one specimen of 

 each plant, and the plants could be very well divided, 

 I imagine. 



558. On the whole, then, you would leave the present 

 haphazard arrangement as it is ? — I think so. 



559. You are not afraid of the consequences? — ^No ; 

 for instance, I am collecting in Jamaica, and I send 

 almost all my specimens to Berlin, for the reason that 

 the Assistant-Director at the Berlin Gardens is working 

 specially at the West India flora. We are in close 

 correspondence about the Jamaica plants, and it is 

 very important they should have their collections there. 

 I do not send the whole of my collections to the British 

 Museum or to Kew, but only send them new species. 

 In collecting, I collect several plants of each kind. 



560. You exercise discrimination with knowledge ? — 

 Exactly. 



561. But I think we have had evidence to show that 

 the way in which collections come over to the British 

 Museum or Kew is not done with knowledge or dis- 

 crimination? — I do not know anything about that. 



562. (Chairman.) You send your new species botii 

 to the British Museum and to Kew? — Yes ; equally. 



563. (Lord Avehury.) Has any case come to your 

 knowledge in which expense has been created by the 

 rivalry between the British Museum and Kew? — No. 



Mt. William Cabkutheiis, f.b.s., called ; and examined. 



Mr. W. 

 Carruthers, 



F.E.S. 



564. {Chairman.) You were, I believe, for several years 

 Keeper of the Department of Botany at the British 

 Museum ? — I was keeper for 24 years. 



565. \\ e have before us the evidence which you gave 

 before the Devonshire Comimission, and also some papers 

 which have reached us put in by yourself afterwards. I 

 do not kno'W whether you have a pretty clear recollection 

 of what you said there, as tO' whether one would be jus- 

 tified in asking you if the views you then expressed are 

 held by you noiw? — I think they are. I am not aware 

 that I have changed my mind with regard tO' anytJiing, or 

 that there are any facts to correct in those statements. 



566. The main question 'before us' is as to whether it 

 is in the interest of 'botariieal science that the two her- 

 baria should be maintained in their present condition, or 

 whether any change shouild be made, and if so, of what 



character. Do you think that the present herbaria should 

 be mainta^ined as they are in their present condition, or 

 do you think tliat a change should be made ? — It seema 

 to me that there are advantages in botli directions, but, 

 as far as I can judge, the gain to science is mocre in the 

 retention of the two herbaria as they at present exist. 



567. The collection, of course, at Kew is a very large 

 one, and has increased very much since the time you 

 gave your evidence before the Devonshire Commission? 

 —No doubt. 



568. I think I am rigiht in saying that one may gather 

 from your evidence at that time you thought that 

 what was required at Kew was a herbarium chiefly in 

 illustration of and in connection with the collection of 

 living plants? — That was in the event of a com'binatian 

 of the two henbaria. Then it was my judgment that the 



