MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



35 



Professor Jou-V Bhkila^^d FAKiiER, F.R.S. 



Professor of Botany, 

 examined. 



Boyal College oi Science, called ; and 



763. (Chairman.) You are Professor of Botany ait the 

 Royal College of Science? — Yes. 



7o4. Wliicli is a Government, institution? — Yes. 



765. Speaking on tlie one hand of your researches 

 in botany and on the other hand of your functions as 

 professor and teacher, you are acqtiainted botli -n-ith the 

 Royal Gaidens at Kew and with the Botanical Depart- 

 ment of the British Museum ? — Yes. 



'■<66. Limiting oneself first to your own researches, 

 have you used both of them for tliat purpose? — Yes, 

 especially Ketv. 



767. You Jiave more recourse to Kew than to the 

 British Museum? — My particular line of work renderi? 

 it easier to get fresh material at Kew. 



768. Limiting oneself now to the /herbaria, hare you 

 had occasion to make use of that at Kew and that at the 

 British Museum for tlie purposes di Tesearch? — ^For 

 email research, yes. 



769. Have you used both one and tlie other indiffer- 

 ently. ? — I naturally use the Natural History Museum 

 if 1 can, because it is nearer. 



770. Probably it has a little indirect bearing on the 

 present inquiiy, and therefore I may ask what is your 

 outfit for teaching and research at the Royal College 

 of Science? — ^It includes laboratories, of course, and a 

 email teaching collection, and a very small herbarium. 



771. A general herbarium? — !N'o ; it is mainly British, 

 with a few other European types, but it is a very small 

 one. 



772. That is entirely for the purpose of teachino-? — 

 Ye.s. 



773. That is your complete outfit? — ^Yes. 



774. Have you had occasion to make use for educa- 

 tional purposes of either Kew or the British Museum, 

 or both?— Both. 



775. Do you use them in the same way or in different 

 ways ; could you explain what use you have made of 

 Kew and the use you have made of the British Mu- 

 seum? — As regards Kew, I have mainly used it to 

 take classes round the gardens to see the plants in the 

 houses, and so forth. There is also a simall students" 

 garden attached to Kew which we have used. That 

 is praetically all. We have done a certain amount of 

 work ill the museums at Kew, but we have used the 

 Natural History Museum to a greater extent, that is, the 

 collections which are displayed in the galleries. We very 

 frequently use them in the course uf the year, and the 

 herbarium also. We have never attempted to use the 

 herbarium at Kew, but we have used the Natural His- 

 tory Museum herbarium, particularly for seaweeds and 

 objects of that kind. 



776. The general herbarium as well as the British 

 herbarii-m? — The general herbarium at the Natural His- 

 tory Museum. 



777. You make use of the educational series in the 

 gallery ? — ^Yes. 



778. That is to say, do you take your pupils there, 

 or are certain of the objects allowed to be taken to 

 your laboratory for use there? — ^No, I take the pupils 

 over there. 



779. You have derived great advantage then from the 

 opportunities which are afforded bv the British Museum? 

 — Yes, very great advantage indeed. 



780. Do you think that those advantages miglit be 

 witli profit enlarged? — Certainly I do. 



781. In what direction, for instance, would you like to 

 see enlargement? — I should like to see more of the kind 

 of things which there are at present. Of course at present 

 the collections are necessarily somewhat limited as re- 

 gards space and so forth, but- still they have been, and 

 are, to us quite invaluable for teaching purposes. My 

 advanced students go over frequently, both when I take 

 them myself and on their own account, to see the collec- 

 tions which are displayed in the galleries. 



782. Supposing it were decided, for this reason or that 

 reason, to transfer the general herbarium at the British 

 Museum to Kew, or a certain or large part of it, would 

 that interfere with the usefulness of the HerbariTan of 

 the British Museum to you for teaching purposes? — To 

 some extent. We would still require access to some col- 

 lections, sea-weeds, and so forth, which we do not keep 



349S. 



ourselves, and have no means of keeping, and it would J'roJ. J. B. 

 be necessary for us to go down to Kew to see them. Farmer, 



783. Your purpose would be met by the retention at ^■^■^ - 

 the Biitish Museum, instead of the generai herbarium, ^^ ^ jqqq 

 which contains a very considerable number of type speci- ' 

 mens, of a more limited herbarium, not consisting of type 

 specimens, but specimens which can be used for reference ? 



— Certainly. 



784. It would answer all your puiposes ? — I think so, 

 provided, of coui-se, that the students ha<^l access to similar 

 collections at Kew when tliey wanted them, which is not 

 verj- often. 



785. Do you wish a double inspection? — Sometimes it 

 is useful for special work to really go back to the type 

 specimens, but that does not very often happen. 



786. That is rather in the nature of research, and not 

 purely educational purposes ? — I like to show the advanced 

 students the original tilings when possible. 



787. But those occasions are relatively few, are they 

 not ? — Certainly. 



788. So that there would be no great hardship, in that 

 case, in having to make a journey to Kew to see those 

 particular type specimens ? — No, I do not think there 

 would. 



789. Because you are, a^ you say, in the habit of making 

 journeys to Kew in order to study the living plants? — 

 Yes. 



790. And the general use of the British Museum for 

 your educational puiposes would be satisfied by a general 

 reference herbarium ? — I think it would. 



791. Together with the educational series in the gal- 

 leries, and so on, enlarged as you suggest? — Yes. 



792. {Lord Avehury.) In preparing such an educational 

 exhibition as you desire for your special purposes, is it 

 not very important that the officials should have a large 

 general collection from which they might feed the educa- 

 tional one ? — ^I am not quite clear that I understand your 

 question. 



_ 793. You contemplated that there shouJd be an educa- 

 tional exhibition such as there is at present, which you 

 wish to see enlarged? — Yes. 



794. But would it be easy to arrange that unless there 

 was a larger collection behind from which it could be 

 fed? — They must have sources for feetling it, but what 

 their sources might be I really cannot say. 



795. But it would be necessary that they should have a 

 collection behind them, as it were, from which the educa- 

 tional collection might be fed ? — Yes, they must certainly 

 have sources for feeding. 



796. Do you attach much importance to keeping the 

 fossil plants and the living plants in one great collection ? 

 — We have never studied the fossil plants very much. 



797. I am not asking you so much from an educational 

 point of xiew as from your opinion as a botanist. Do you 

 think it is desirable to keep the extinct and living forms 

 together? — It is more convenient for educational pur- 

 poses. 



798. For the purpose of naming the fossils, do you con- 

 sider it important to have a collection of the living forms 

 side by side with them with which they might be com- 

 pared, and by which thej' might be named and deter- 

 mined ? — Do you mean to name the fossils from the exist- 

 ing living forms ? 



799. I mean, assuming that the fossil plants would re- 

 main at the Natural History Museum in any case. I wish 

 to elicit your opinion whether it is important that the 

 collection of living plants and the fossil plants should be 

 together ? — I do not think that matters very much, so long 

 as they are sufficiently near for a person to go readily from 

 one to the other. On the whole, perhaps, it is better 

 they should be in series, but I do not think it is a very 

 great disadvantage so long as they are not far remote 

 from one another. Fossil plants after aU, although they 

 come into a series, are pretty distinct from any living 

 series at the present time — at least most of them are. 



800. Say, for .example, that the Natural History 

 Museum, so far as the living plants are concerned, was 

 amalgamated with Kew : it would then be necessary for 

 tTie officials of the British Museum to go down 

 to Kew to name tTieir fossil plants from time 

 to time, would it not ? — I do not imagine that 



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