MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



37 



be in aiiy way au iiijuiy to botaiucal science in Eng- 

 land / As it is at present it is a ceJitre of i-esearcli, 

 ^nd iJjat gives it a certain vigour wliicli luiglit not be 

 found in an educational collection? — I do not think un- 

 less research is going on in a museum there is very 

 muci'. life in it. 



846. So that you think if it is turned into a purely 

 educational department that ■would be undesirable ( — I 

 think it would be a definitely retrogressive step, if it 

 implies getting out of touch Tvith research. 



847. Would that react on the Educational Depart- 

 .mentV — Yes — it was that I meant. 



848. {Mr. Spring Kkr.) Are you aware tliat at pre- 

 sent there are two national institaitions in tlie neigh- 

 bourhood of London, each striving to get a complete 

 botajiical collection? Kew and the Natural History 

 Museum are collecting on the same lines in competitaon 

 ■with each other? — ^I have heard something to this effect, 

 in so far as th,e herbarium is concerned. 



849. Have you ever heard sometimes one succeeds in 

 .getting a rarity or a unique specimen, and sometimes 

 ■the other succeeds ? — I have not heard any more tlian 

 xumours to that effect. 



850. But assuming that to be so, the consequence is 

 that neither of them gets as complete a collection as it 

 ■would if only one competed — that follows, does it not? 

 — Yes. 



851. Do you think that is a good result from the 

 jpurely scientific point of vie^w? — ^It does not seem to me 

 it matters very much from the purely scientific point of 

 vio-iv. The two collectioriis are pretty near to one 

 another. 



852. You mean that it is a matter of so much in- 

 difference as to ■whether a specimen is at Kew or at 

 Cromwell Road, that it is not worth talking about? — • 

 Personally, I do not think it is. 



853. Have you ever > experienced any particular in- 

 convenience in studying a particular branch of a sub- 

 ject at two places at once? — No. What I have done in 

 -many cases when I have used the collections is to go 

 to one of the institutions and then to the other one. 



8b4. Would not your time have been saved if the 

 whole had been at one place ? — In some cases peiihaps 

 it might, but as a mal±er of fact one nearly always 

 finds -when one is doing work of that kind that one 

 ■can put in one day at one place and another day or more 

 •a/t another. Perhaps, for the purpose of convenience, it 

 Tery often might happen it -would be better to have 

 iihem all at one institution. But you -were asking 

 ■whether I personally had experienced a difficulty, and 

 I have confined my answer to that question. 



855. Speaking rather more broadly than of your own 

 personal experience, do you consider that the difficulty 

 is worth considering or not? — It is very hard to say 

 generally. I should think it -would not in, many cases 

 "be a matter of much consideration. One finds that 



difficulty almost everywhere, Berlin and other places 

 too, different collections in different parts of the city. 



856. (Mr. Darwin.) Is not your experience rather 

 peculiar, inasmuch as you work at South Kensington 

 and Hve close to Kew? — I do not live at Kew now. 



857. I thoucrht your experience might be based on 

 -fthnt time? — ^No. 



858. {Mr. Spring Eice.) No doubt it is true all the 

 Wo) Id over, buD Would it not be advantageous to science 

 if the same amount of effort and trouble -was spent by 

 tlij two institutions on some specialised lines, or differ- 

 eiiiiated lines? — I think perhaps it might. 



859. Has it ever occurred to you whether there could 

 be any distinction drarwn between tlie efforts of tho 

 Natural Histtiry Museum and Kew? — As far as I am 

 concerned the Natural History Museum is, of couxse, 

 an educational museum, and the Kew collections are 

 more of national importance in connection with the re- 

 sources of the Colonies, and so forth. 



860. Would you thinik it desirable that such differ- 

 ences as that should be emphasised rather tlian obliter- 

 ated? — Yes, I tliink it would be distinctly advantageous 

 from our point of view that they should be emphasised. 



861. I was asking also from the general scientific 

 point of view. Looking at them as two more or less 

 Government institutions engaged in botanical work, 

 do you think they should be instructed to work on 

 dift'erent lines rather than on comnetitive lines? — Yes. 

 I take it that the Natural History Museum, except inso- 

 far* as it acquires type specimens, does not compete 

 in any sense with Kew. In that sense perhaps it does 

 and i think to that extent some differentiation would be 

 desirable. 



862. Speaking of such a case as we were told of the 

 other day, the Indian flora is very much better repre- 

 sented at Kew than at the British Museum. At the 

 same time there are some things in the British Mu- 

 seum that are luot at Kew. In youx opinion would it 

 be an advantage if some arrangement were made by 

 •uhicb it should be understood that an attempt at the 

 complete Indian flora was the business of Kew, and 

 that the British Museum should taJke another case, or 

 vice versa ? — I sliould certainly go as far as tJiat. 



863. {Chairman.) Lord Avebury was putting a ques- 

 tion to you as to the necessity of some means of keep- 

 ing up A teaching herbarium, that there must be 

 another herbarium behind it in order to fill up gaps 

 for repairs and for extension. Is it necessary that that 

 herbarium whicli is drawn upon should be at the Bri- 

 tish Museum itself? Could not the dried plants be 

 supplied from elsewhere, from Kew, for instance ? — 

 If there were sufficient room for a museum at Kew to 

 admit of the retention of duplicates and so forth in 

 sufficient quantities to do that, yes, but that might be 

 a difficulty. 



864. There are always a large number of duplicates, 

 are there not? — In practice it is not always easy to 

 get them. 



865. Referring to the question Mr. Darwin pat to 

 you, is it not possible to have research going on, even 

 in a. teaching institution ? Supposing that the Botani- 

 cal Department at the British Museum was limited to 

 an educational institute, would it not still be possible 

 to have research carried on in connectio-i with it? — 

 Certainly it would, if provision were made for that. 



866. So that the conversion of the joresent arrangement 

 of th(- British Museum into a purel-^ educational and 

 illustrative establishment would not necessarily put an 

 end to research there ? — It would not necessarily do so. 



J'rof. J. B. 

 Farmer, 



F.R.S. 



14 Nov. 1900. 



