38 



DEPARTMENTAL COMMITTEE ON BOTANICAL WORK : 



FIFTH DAY. 



WESTMINSTER PALACE HOTEL. 



Thursday, 15th November, 1900. 



PRESENT : 



Sir Michael Foster, k.c.b., m.p., sec.e.s., &c. (in the Chair). 



The Eiglit Hon. Baron Avebury, p.c, f.r.s. 

 Sir John Kirk, g.c.m.g., k.c.b., f.r.s. 

 Professor Isaac Bayiey Balfour, d.sc, f.r.s. 



Mr. Francis Darwin, m.b., f.r.s. 



Mr. Horace Alfred Damer Seymour, c.b. 



Mr. Stephen Edward Spring Rice, c.b. 



Mr. Benjamin Daydon Jackson, Secretary- 



Mr. Albebt Chables Seward, F.B.S., called; and examined. 



Mr. A. C. 

 Setvard, 



F.R.S. 



15 Nov. 1900. 



867. (Chairman.) You are University Lecturer in 

 Botany at the University of Cambridge ? — ^Yes. 



868. You have paid special attention to fossil botany ? — 

 Yes. 



869. You are acquainted with the botanical collections 

 both at the Royal Gardens, Kew, and the British Museum 

 in Cromwell Road ? — ^Yes. There is a part of the collec- 

 tion I have no acquaintance with, namely, the flowering 

 plants at Kew, or practically none. It is chiefly the ferns 

 and gymno sperms. 



870. Are there any collections of fossil plants ait Kew ? — 

 Very few. There are a few slides of importance in the 

 Jodrell Laboratory, cut from specimens in the Kew 

 Museum. 



871. But there are valuable collections of fossil plants 



at the British Museum ? — Yes, exceedingly good. 



872. Those, with certain exceptions, which I think are 

 displayed for popular purposes, are placed in the Geo- 

 logical Department, are they not ? — ^Yes, now practically 

 all are in the Geological Department, but there are a few 

 put in the show cases as you say. 



873. According to a n^morandum laid before us it was 

 intended that the collection should be placed in the Geo- 

 logical Department, under the superintendence of the 

 keeper of the Botanical Department ? — That I do not 

 know. 



874. Have you studied geology as well as botany? — 

 Yes. 



875. Are you able to form an opinion as to the value 

 of a collection of fossil plants — whether the geological 

 value or the botanical value is of the greater moment? — 

 I thinlc undoubtedly the botanical value is much greater 

 than the geological ; such work as I have done myself 

 has been chiefly from the botanical point of view. The 

 dhiief use of fossil planits geologically is connected with 

 the question of geological age. 



876. Do you give that simply as your own opinion, or 

 is that an opinion which you think would be very largely 

 ehaired by other scientific mien, botanists and geologists ? 

 — I think so. 



877. Our attention has been called to certain difficulties 

 which are presented by having a large botanical collec- 

 tion at Kew, and another at the British Museum, and it 

 has been suggested that there would be advantages; in 

 vmiting the two collections, either on the one hand at 

 Kew, or on the other hand at the British Museum. Sup- 

 posing that in the first instance the Herbarium at Kew 

 was transferred to the British Museum, then the fossil 

 plants would necessarily remain at the British Museum 

 with the rest of the collection, so that that case does not 

 perhaps call for further enquiry. But supposing it was 

 decided to transfer to the Royal Gardens, Keiw, the present 

 general herbarium to the British Museum, do you think 

 it desirable that the fossil plants should be transferred 

 to Kew with that general herbarium, or should they be 

 allowed to remain i b the British Museum ? — ^I think if the 

 herbarium were transferred to Kew the fossil plants 

 ought certainly to go as well. In working at the fossil 

 plants one has constantly to refer to specimens in the 

 herbarium for comparison, and one frequently finds 



plants that one is unable to identify, and one wishes to 

 compare them with recent forms. Very frequently 

 those recent forms which are most useful from this point 

 of view are exceedingly rare at the present day ; it is- 

 necessary therefore to have access to specimens in a good 

 and fairly complete herbarium. If no herbarium were 

 at hand one would constantly have to make journeys tc 

 Kew. At present it is impossible, without getting a 

 special order, to take specimens out of the building of 

 the British Museum. One would really have to make- 

 drawings of the specimens, or to carry the appearance 

 of the specimens in one's head, which is most unsatis- 

 factory. 



878. But is not the fact that the fossil plants are- 

 placed in the Geological Department is an in-dication that 

 the authorities of the Britisih Museum are of opinion that 

 it is most important the fossil plants should be retained 

 at the British Museum in connection with the geological- 

 collections ? — That would appear so on the face of it. 

 Of course the collection of fossil plants in the Geological 

 Department has been always a good deal greater than 

 that in the Botanical Department, and I fancy it was 

 thought much more convenient to have all the collections- 

 together ; the larger portion being do-wnatairs in the 

 Geological Department, it was decided to transfer the re- 

 mainder to the Geological Department. 



879. And the transference to Kew which you are re- 

 commending is the transference only of those fossil plants- 

 which are definitely in the Botanical Department? — No; 

 I was thinking of the main collection in the Museum 

 generally, which is in" the Geological Department. There-, 

 are very few in the Botanical Department so far as 1 

 know. 



880. We cannot distinguish between fossil plants which 

 have been always in the Geological Department and the 

 the large collections of fossil plants which we were told' 

 were placed in the GeologicalDepartment on the under- 

 standing that they were to be mider the direction of the- 

 keeper of the Botanical Department? — May I say what 

 I know about the transference ? I cainnot speak -with 

 authority, but some time ago, when I first worked in the 

 Museum, I found there were a considerable number of 

 fossil plants I constantly had to refer to in the Botanical 

 D epartm ent 



881. Actually in the Botanical Department reserved for- 

 research, and not for public display? — No, not publicly 

 displayed-, put away in drawers and so forth in the hex- 

 barium, in the part not open to the public. About a 

 year or rather more ago, these various specimens were 

 transferred to the Geological Department, and they are 

 still there, in cases piled up one on top of the other, in 

 one of the working rooms of the Geological Department. 

 Sometime ago Dr. Woodward, the keeper of the Geologi- 

 cal Department, asked me to go through those specimens 

 that had been transferred, and as far as I could name 

 them. I began to do that, but owing to the pressure of 

 other work I have not yet completed it. I now have that 

 work on hand. In connection with that work I was not 

 led to suppose for a moment that the keeper of the 

 Botanical Department had any further authority over 

 those particular plants. So far as I was able to gather- 

 from what was said to me, I formed the impression that 



