40 



DEPARTMENTAL COMMITTEE ON BOTANICAL WORK : 



Mr. A. C. 



Seward, 

 F.K.S. 



15 Nov. 1900. 



ferns and the gymnosperms ? — The vascular cryptogams 

 generally and. the gymnosperms. 



913. So that one may take it that thii herbarium of the 

 British Museum has not been very much used of recent 



' years 'by botanists in conneotian Tvifch fossils ? — No. 



914. Do you know of your own knowledge any botanisifc 

 who would be likely to use the British liluseum herbarium 

 in connection with fossil plants recently? — There has 

 been no one recently working at the mesozoic plants so 

 far as I know. 



915. I suppose Mr. Clement Reid is about the only 

 worker? — Yes ; he goes there from time to time to 

 look at flowering plants. I fancy; he has gone to Kew 

 more, but I am not sure as to that. He has gone to 

 both places a good deal. 



916. I suppose one may take it that even supposing 

 the fossil plants were all left at the British Museum, 

 and the herbarium were moved to Kew, it would not be 

 really a cause of great inconvenience to botanists? — 

 It would be much more inconvenient than as things 

 are at present. At present one is able to consult a 

 very good herbarium at the British Museum, but at the 

 same time one is occasionally obliged to go to Kew 

 to see the living plants, and sometimes to look at the 

 herbarium also, which may fill up a gap or two in the 

 British Museum. If there were no recent plants in the 

 British Museum it would make the work very much 

 more difficult. 



917. But apparently it would not interfere very much 

 with the IxKbanioal work in fossil botany were this 

 done ? — Do you mean if all recent plants were moved 

 from the British Museum an"(3 the fossil plants were 

 left there? 



918. Yes ? — ^I think it would rather seriously initer- 

 fere with the work. At present in many cases one is 

 able to get all one wants in the British Museum in the 

 waj^ oif recent plants for comparison, but occasionally 

 one has to go to Kew, though not in every case. 



919. (Mr. Danoin.) Omitting the fossil plants from 

 consideraition for the moment, and supposing that from 

 the point of view of systematcte -botany it were decided 

 to remove the herbarium from the British Museum and 

 aaialgamale it with Kew, then, as I understood you, you 

 would still want for adequate work in the British Museum 

 a very complete herbarium containing representatioaiB 

 praatically of the known flora? — ^Yies. 



920. That would pracfeally block the amaJgamation of 

 the two tienbairia wliich was d'esired from; a wide systematic 

 point of view. What I wanted to ask was, do you or do you 

 niot think that palseo-botany is so impoirtant in reference 

 ■to the rest of systematic botany that such an arrangement 

 would be desirable, that the necessity of keeping a com- 

 plete herbarium should be allowed to block the amalgama- 

 tion of the two hembaria which was desiralble from other 

 points of view ? — ^I think I should hardly go as far as that. 

 I have found from the little work I have done in connec- 

 tion with recent ferns that one is always bound to go to 

 Kew and the British Museum, and one sometimes has to 

 do that even now in connection with the fossils. I must 

 say although I think on the whole there certainly would 

 be disadvantages and inconveniences if the herbaria were 

 removed from the British Museum to Kew ; on the other 

 hand the advantages resulting from the amalgamation 

 would be greater than the disadvantages. 



931. That would result in what you have already 

 spoken of, the fossils being with the herbaria ? — ^Yes. 



922. Is there anyone at the British Museum who has any 

 sjiecial knowledge of palseo-ibotany ? — ^No. 



923. Have you found any difficulty in consequence of 

 that in the use of the specimens 1 — It has been rather 

 difficult. One lias had to learn the whereabouts of plants 

 rt good deal oneself, and I have met with more than one 

 visitor to the Museum who has been to look at some j)ar- 

 ticular fossil plant and has been unable to obtain infor- 

 niation as to its whereabouts. No one I think there knows 

 much about the fossils or does any work in connection 

 v/ith them. 



924. As regards the general conveniences for work on 

 fossil plants in the British Museum, have you found it 

 suitable for the work? — In some respects the conditions 

 have been very favourable. The library is an excellent 

 one, more particularly the library in the Botanical De- 

 partment, but there aa'e certain inconveniences. For 

 example, I have often had to examme sections in tilie 

 Williamson colilection of palaeozoic plants showing detailed 

 internal structure, and to get those specim'ens I have had 

 to go first of all into an underground room in the base- 



ment, and then bring those sections upstairs, and one 

 cannot, as a rule, obtain adequate microscopes in the 

 Geological Department. I have generally had to take 

 those sections to the top of the building and borrow a 

 microscope from the Botanical Department. The condi- 

 tions, as far as the study of microscopic sections is coii- 

 cemed, are not very favourable. 



925. There is a considerable waste of time? — Yes, and 

 there is the carrying of vaiualble sections from distances. 



926. {Lord Avebury.) That is rather an accidental cir- 

 cumstance of the present moment ; it would be as easy 

 to supply a good mdcroscope at the British Museum, if 

 necessary, as it would be any wJicre else ? — Certainly. 



927. You would not attach any great importance to 

 that consideration from the point of view of the question 

 which we have to consider, would you ? — No. I was- 

 merely saying that as things are at present the facilities- 

 are not very good. 



928. I quite imderstood that it was an answer to Sk 

 question, ibut I wished to ascertain how much importance- 

 you attach to the consideration. At present in the 

 Natural History Museuam we have a complete natural 

 -history oollectioai. There is a sense in which it is in- 

 complete, but it covers the whole 'ground, so- fax as the 

 scope is concerned. Do you or do you not attach much 

 importance to retaining one great national collection 

 which should cover the animal and vegetable kingdom i- 

 — From the point of view of display ? 



929. Yes, and of general science ? — ^I thiink it is most 

 important. 



930. You would break that up, would you not, if you 

 transferred the whole of the botany from the Natural 

 History 'Museum ? — ^I do not think I suggested the trans- 

 ference of the whole of the Botaruical Department. I, 

 was speaking rather of the herbarium, the part not 

 open to the public. 



931. You would leave the part whioh is open to the- 

 public still in the naturad history collection? — Yes. I 

 think I was not quite asked that question. It would be 

 a great pity to take away botany entirely from the natural. 

 history collection and render it incomplete. 



932. Would it not l>e very difficult toi have a palatial 

 collection ? Would not the first efi'ect of transferring the - 

 collections that now exist be that we aliouJd have to begin 

 another oollectioai de novo at the Natural History 

 Museum if we are to 'have an exhibition for the public ? 



— iThe plants I ihave had oceaBion to refer to in connec- 

 tion with my work are those in the herbarium not ex- 

 posed to public view. If they were ^transferred it would 

 not materially afi'ect the public exhibition of the- 

 specimiens. 



933. Is not the public exhibition fed, as it were, from 

 the herbarium, and is it not necessary to have a her- 

 baritun in order to select specimens which can bei ex- 

 hibited from time to time to the pubiic ? — ^Yes, I suppose 

 the number of specimens now exhibited originally came 

 from the herbarium. 



934. For instance, in forming a collection of the British 

 plants, to name them and determine them, and so on, 

 is it not necessary to have a sort of reservoir behind from 

 which the public collection should be supplied? — ^That 

 would certainly be advisable, but so far as I can form 

 an opinion about that point, it does not seem to me that 

 the transference of the herbarium as a whole would be ■ 

 inconsistent with retaining a good typical selection of 

 plants for the purpose of public exhibition. The two 

 things seem to me rather distinot. 



935. No douibt you could retain those that are now in 

 the public galleries, but you prdbalbly would agree with 

 ■me that for any exhibition of that kind it is necessary 

 to be continually replacing specimens and introducing 

 fresh ones ? — ^Certainly. 



936. And would it be easy to do that if there was no 

 general collection behind, as it were, to be drawn on for 

 the purpose ? — ^Of course, if the two departments were 

 in to^uoh with one another, specimensi might be supplied 

 from the living material at^ Kew. I do not tihiinik -there 

 are a great numlber of dried specimens exMlbited now in 

 the public galleries, but I am not well acquainted with 

 the public collection. 



937. And that would almost involve, would it not, 

 bringing the management of Kew and the managemen-t 

 of the Natural History Museum into closer relation with 

 one another than they are at present? — ^That would be- 

 an advantage, I think. 



938. (Chairman.) I forgot to ask you, but it came out 



