MINUTES OF EVIDENCE. 



41 



incidentally : tou have made two catalogues, or more 

 than cne catalogue, of fossil plants in the Britisii 

 Museum ? — Yes. 



939. You might just state definitely what you havb 

 done in that way ? — Two volumes so far have been pub- 

 lished, both being the AVealden plants, the collection that. 

 ■was acquire<l by the Museum some isix or eig'lit years ago, 

 and the third volume, which I have just fini.shed, though 

 it is not yet pu-blished, is on the Jurassic plants of the 

 Yorkshiie coasts, of wlueh the Museum possesses a fairly 

 good codlection. 



940. Those you have brouglit out under the direction 

 of the Trustees, and have been publisihed by the 

 Trustees ? — Yes. 



941. (Professor Balfour.) In connection with the ex- 

 hibition in the galleries, suppose the collections were 

 trasferred, as it was suggested they might be, to Kew, 

 and a few good specimens were exhibited in the gal- 

 leries, would you have these specimens in the botanical 



gallery or the geological, or have some in both? — I should ilr. A. C. 

 have some in both. Seward, 



p p e ' 



942. I suppose a series of representative fossil speoi- ' 

 mens exhibited along \\'itli the present morpliologjoa;! aud jg j^^^y lOrtO 



systematic coHections in th3 galleries, specimens, for [_" 



instance, of lepidodendra and similar objects, would be 



quite sufficient in the botanical deiKii-tment. There 

 are some there at present. One case I remember 

 in tlie Botanical Department at present containing 

 recent lycopodS and similar plants, and with these 

 some specimens of paliBozoic lepidodendroid plants V — 

 Yes. I think it would be an advantage to have some 

 in the Geological Department to illustrate the affinities. 



943. There is not very much of that? — No, but it has 

 been extended recently a Jittle. 



944. And it could be extended more with advantage? 

 — I think so. 



945. So that in that way the fossil plant collections 

 would be of more use than they have hitherto been?^ 

 Certainly. 



Mr. "William Philip Hiern, m.a., p.l.s., called ; and examined. 



946. (Chairman.) You have been engaged the greater 

 part of your life in the study of systematic botany, and 

 you are the author of one or more monogiiaphs? — Yes. 



947. You are acquainted with the botanical collections 

 botli at the Boyal Gardens, Kew, and at tlie British 

 Museum, Oroiuw'ell Road? — Yes ; I worked coirtinuously 

 for about Sg years at the Kew Herbarium, living at Eich- 

 mond on purpose to do so. I have also worked con- 

 tinuously for about five years at tlie British Museum 

 Herbarium, and I have taken a house in London on 

 purpose. 



948. So that you have really 'had an unusually large 

 acquaintance ■\ritli the two ccilleotdons? — ^Yes. 



bf-fd. Can you say that you have made use of tbe Kew 

 collections for certain purposes auid of the British 

 Museum for other pui-poses ; or, to put it in another way, 

 what were the reasons that led you to studv at Kew, and 

 what were the reasons that led you to study at the British 

 Museum ? — ^I went to Kew (before I knew very much of 

 the comparative extent or merits of the im'o collections. 

 The reputation of Kew at tJia/t time was greater, as 

 having the largest and best arranged collections of plants. 

 I found that in connectibn with my work at Kew it was 

 necessarv to pay visits to the Britisii Museum, which I 

 did. 



950. That is to say, there were coillections at tlie British 

 Museum which did not exist at Kew? — Certainly. At 

 tlie iiriti'S'h 'Museum more recently I have been very 

 regular, because the Trustees have employed me to do 

 special work for them in connection with a collection 

 of ^^'est African plants. 



951. Tou are now working more or less officially there ? 

 — I have been working at speoiarl employment there. 



952. In the preparation of a work to be published 

 by the Trustees? — Precisely. 



953. Do you say it has been published by the 



Trustees?— Yes. 



954. Do you think, in the interests of botanical 

 science, it is desirable that the two collections, the 

 one at Kew and the other at the British Museum, 

 should be maintained in their present form ? — No. 



955. You think a change is desirable ? — ^Yes. 



956. What is the change which seem.s to a"ou de- 

 sirable ? — I should recommend absolute incorporation 

 of both collections under one roof, and consolidation 

 as far as practicable, and by preference all on the same 

 floor. 



957. And the locality in which that union should 

 take place shonld be at Kew, or at the British Museum? 

 — ^Having regard to all the circumstances of the case, 

 I think that the best place would be in the Cromwell 

 Road, at the Natural History Museum. 



958. Could you state the reasons which lead you to 

 that opinion? — The reasons are what I think would 

 occur to anybody. The first is that the place is more 

 easily and generally accessible ; the second, that it 

 is nearer to the herbarium and library of Linnseus, 

 which has occasionally to be consulted, 



959. That is in the possession of the Linnean 

 Society ? — Yes. Then in the same building are found 

 the zoological collections, part of which approach in 



5499. 



structure and afiinities the lower classes of cryptogams. 

 And so with the geological collections. There are 

 jioints where it is very necessary to be able to see 

 specimens which are in the geological collections in 

 connection with fossil botany. Therefore, to make the 

 representation of botany complete, it is very desirable 

 that the two places should be in close proximity. 

 There is, of course, the risk of fire, but in a substantial 

 bviilding like the one in Cromwell Road I think it is 

 obvious that the risk of fire would be very much less, 

 and the aiipliances for extinguishing the fire would be 

 much more readily accessible. 



960. Would it not be possible to construct a fire- 

 proof building at Kew if it was decided to unite both 

 collections there ? — No doubt. 



961. And there is water at Kew, is there not ? — The 

 Tliames is there, and I believe the waterworks have 

 their pipes there, but I do not know if they have fire 

 stations there. Then there is another reason. They 

 have in Cromwell Road books, transactions of socie- 

 ties, and periodicals which may not bear on botanical 

 matters principally, but which contain some reference 

 to them, and it is a great convenience to be able to get 

 at papers and books that »may happen to contain some 

 botanical matters — books that would be hardly expected 

 to be found at Kew. 



962. They are not found at Kew? — No, in many cases 

 they are not fouaid at Kew. 



963. Then the course which seems to you the best 

 is the transference of the herbarium at present at Kew 

 to Cromwell Road ? — A transference for the purpose 

 of taking out all that would be required to make there 

 the best collection of plants. 



964. Would you take certain parts only? — ^I suppose 

 the mode of doing it would be to take all for the pur- 

 pose of considering what is required, and then, if it was 

 thought proper to have any sort of herbarium at Kew, 

 to return what might be wanted there. 



965. That is to say, if one might use the expression, 

 a mutilated herbarium ? — Yes. Ihat is to say, a 

 secondary herbarium. 



966. From your knowledge of Kew, are you of opinion 

 that what you speak of as a secondary herbarium, 

 uhat is to say, I suppose, an herlbaiium either incom- 

 j)lete, or at all events, not containing what are called 

 the type specimens, would be adequate for the very 

 large work which is being carried on at Kew ? The 

 work that is carried on at Kew is very large, is it not, 

 more especially in connection with the Colonies and 

 with economic botany ? Do you think it is not neces- 

 sary that there should be at Kew a very complete 

 herbarium ?— No. I think such a herbarium that could 

 be placed there after satisfying the demands of a 

 primary herbarium would be quite adequate for its 

 purposes. 



967. Such a transference would necessarily entail a 

 certain amount of expense ? — 'No doubt. 



968. Supposing that upon inquiry it were found that 

 the expense so caused was very great, do you think 

 that the advantages of the amalgamation are such as 

 to justify on the part of the nation a considerable ex- 

 penditure of money? — I think the scientific advan- 



F 



3Ir. W. P. 

 Hiern, 



M.A., F.L.S. 



