M[\UTE.S OK EVIDENCE. 



43 



ence from Great Russell Street to Cromwell Road ?— I 

 believe so. 



996. Would not that account a great deal for there not 

 being so much original work done for a few years afler 

 the transference? — It would. 



997. Supposinij the collections at Kew were iran.sferred 

 to the Natural History Museum, which would be a trans- 

 ference of the great Colonial oollection.s, would it not be 

 natural that many of the questions which are now ad- 

 dressed to Kew would be addressed to the Natural History 

 Muveum ? — Yes. I daresay several would. 



998. Wlierever tlie Colonial collections are, naturally 

 the Colonial questions would go ?— So fai as they depended 

 upon the sftecimens. S<j far as they depended on eco- 

 nomic considerations perhaps they would go to Kew. 



999. So far as they depended on naming the plants 

 they would go wherever the collections were ? — No doubf. 



1002. Sui)posing that the objections you have urged 

 could be overcome, would you think that union at Kew 

 would be of distinct advantage ? — ^Yes. 



1001. And you would prefer to have it at Cromwell 

 Road ?— Yes. 



1002. Supposing that the objections you have urged 

 could be overcome, would you think that union at Kew 

 would be of distinct advantage? — Yes. 



1003. So that if all those points that you refer to as 

 leading you to think that Cromwell R/jad would be better, 

 were satisfactorily overcome, you think that the union 

 at Kew would be a great advantage? — Yes, union at 

 Kew, rather than leaving things as they are. 



M,. W. P 



Hiern, 

 .M.A., F.L.3. 



17 Nov. 1900. 



Mr. Hexky Johx Ei.wes, F.R.S., called; and e.xamined. 



1004. (Chairman.) You have paid during your life 

 great attention to botany, chiefly from the horticultural 

 point of view, and you are the author of a monograph on 

 the genus Liliuinl — Yes. 



1005. You are acquainted with the botanical collections 

 at Kew 1 — I have not had lately so much occasion to work 

 there as I had formerly, but I have been there a good deal 

 at various times, and f have always found it unique among 

 public herbaria for the facility with which one can work 

 and the aVjundaiice of material at one's disposal. 



1006. Have you had occasion to consult the British 

 Museum ? — Hardly at all. It never happened that I 

 wanted things in the herbarium there. I found I could 

 get on so much faster at Kew and find more abundant 

 material there. I never had, as far as I recollect, tf- 

 go to the British Museum for anything I could not find 

 at Kew. 



1007. But you are generally acquainted with the col- 

 lection at the British Museum 1 — I mean to say, of the 

 herbarium, very little. My acquaintance with the 

 British Museum is more in the Zoological Department, 



1008. Do you feel qualified to give any opinion as to 

 whether it is desirable to maintain the two collections, 

 the one at Kew and the other at the British Museum, in 

 their present form ? — I have the very strongest opinion 

 that the maintenance of two collections is, I was going 

 to say ridiculous, and I feel that the study of dried plants, 

 at any rate of monocotyledons, cannot be carried on with- 

 out reference in very many c-ascs to living plants, and that 

 Kew is the only place where systematic botany can be 

 studied properly, perhaps I may .say in the world. 



1009. Do we understand then that you are distinctly of 

 opinion that it would be desirable to imite the two collec- 

 tions ? — I am very strongly of that opinion. 



1010. That union probably you would think should 

 refer to the herbarium of the British Museum ? — Yes. 



1011. You would leave the popular illustrations in the 

 galleries ? — Yes ; that is a separate thing altogether. 



1012. You are speaking now of the general herbarium ? 

 —Yes. 



1013. There is also there a British herbarium. "Would 

 you transfer that also to Kew ? — I cannot speak about 

 that, because I do not know to what extent it is con- 

 sulted by purely British naturalists. There are a cer- 

 tain cla.ss of people, who, I suppose will always continue, 

 who try to study the English flora as they do the English 

 fauna, without regard to other countries, and I should 

 not like to say whether such a collection as that might 

 not be reserved if thought desirable in the Mu.seum, 

 but that would be a very trifling thing in extent I 

 imagine. 



1014. You are very distinctly of opinion that it. would 

 be most desira;ble to transfer the general herbarium 

 now at Cromwell Road to the Royal Gardens, Kew? — 

 So much of it as would be useful there. I think that 

 probably if a transfer was made a very large part of the 

 older specimens would be found worthless and would have 

 to be got rid of in some way, but such collections as might 

 be, from any particular point, valuable certainly ought 

 to be at Kew. 



1015. Would it be desirable to retain for the rest of 

 the purposes of the British Museum any general her- 

 barium at Cromwell Road? — I cannoD see myself the 

 necessity. Of course, in studying fossil plants it may, 

 no doubt, be desirable at times to have the existing re- 

 presentatives at hand, but not being a geologist I cannot 



3499. 



speak as to the necessity of that. That is the only point .j jj j 

 of view from which I should suppose it might be desir- £i^f,gg p g i^^ 

 able. _! * 



1016. It has been represented to us that it is in the 

 interests of science that the zoological collections and 

 the botanical collections should be together in the same 

 building. Does that carry any weight to your mind? — 

 None whatever. 



1017. You have carried on very considerable biological 

 researches as well as botanical ? — ^I have had a great 

 deal more to do with entomology and ornithology than 

 I have with botany as ]>otany. My botanical work is 

 purely from a horticultural point of view, the desire 

 t'j get plants correctly named. I should not study 

 dried plants if I could get the living ones. 



1013. It is suggested that it is of scientific impor- 

 t;ince that the workers in zoology should be side 'oy 

 side with the workers in botany? — I cannot see myself 

 any necessity for it. 



1019. In working at Kew have you found any 

 marked deficiencies in the library there ? — No ; I 

 should say it is an admirable library. I have never 

 been to any herbarium or public museum m the world 

 where you can work so conveniently and so quickly as 

 at Kew. I consider it is a most admirably managed 

 institution. 



1020. Does the library contain an adecjuate supplv 

 of general scientific journals and periodicals, in which 

 there are only occasional botanical papers? — I never 

 asked for any Ijook in the Herbarium at Kew that I 

 did not get almost instantly, which, as you know, is 

 of gi-eat advantage. 



1021. Supposing it is admitted that it is desirable to 

 amalgamate the two herbaria and it were decided to 

 move the herbarium at Kew to the British Museum, 

 how would you regard that step? — ^I should consider it 

 an impossible thing to do. I am quite sure it could 

 not be done without the strongest opposition. The 

 whole world would rise against it. If there is one 

 public institution in England which we are proud of, 

 it is Kew. 



1022. Are you of opinion that that would most 

 materially affect the general work of the establishment 

 at Kew? — I say it would be just as impossible for the 

 horticultural part of the work to be carried on without 

 the herbarium as it would be for the herbarium to be 

 carried on without the horticultural work. I believe 

 that in the future the connection between the two 

 sciences will be found much more intimate than it 

 has been in the past. Dean Herbert 60 years ago 

 said the two sciences must be studiefl together, and I 

 fully agree with him. You will find a great deal 

 of the work at Kew has been only possible because 

 of the existence of the living specimens. That 

 applies, of course, more particularly to the trees and, 

 to monocotyledonous plants, but the study of orch'ds, 

 of palms, of aroids or trees, is practically impossible 

 from a herbarium only. You have the two together 

 at Kew. 



1023. But the point was, supposing that the herbar- 

 ium as at present existing at Kew is removed to the 

 British Museum, would that produce a very bad effect 

 indeed on the whole administration at Kew, and rend&r 

 it impossible, as you say? — I think it would be ar. 

 absolutely impossible step to take. There would be 

 a general strike against it. 



1024. Does that apply to this step, that the herbar- 



F 2 



