MIXUTES OF EVIDEXCE. 



51 



Is also a great collection of minerals there, T\-]iich is rerj- 

 iniportant. 



1155. Also, as a matiter of fact, the Miis^aim is made 

 use of by students for the narrower educational jnir- 

 l^oses of which you just spoke? — So far as I can make 

 out, that applies almost exclusively to certain students 



■ of dental anatomy, dental students who come to look 

 through a very beautiful series of teeth, which were put 

 lip in one of the compartments of the Central Hall by 

 my predecessor. Sir William Flower. Students come to 

 nse that collection in a way which I think should not 

 be the general use of the collections of the Museum. 

 They come to use it as they would use a collection in a 

 college or in conuectitin with univei'sity class woak. 



1156. But the botanical collections are used by 

 students ? — Not to my knowledge. 



1157. Not by the students of the Royal College 

 of Science ? — I say they are not itsed by them, 

 that is to say, they are not systematically worked 

 through as a part of their study. Of course, all the 

 collections over the place are looked at by students of 

 all kinds, but I think one has to be very careftrl as to 

 the exact meaning and limitation of the -word " use " in 

 that matter, and of the word " student.'' "What I meant 

 with regard to the series of teeth was that the students 

 came with note-books, and occasionally I have seen an 

 instructor of some kind holding forth to them, and itsing 

 this collection as a series of specimens which might be 

 used in a class-room. I do not think that goes on with 

 regard to anyofclier portion of the Museum at all, and I 



■do not think that it is desirable tlia-t the Museuan should 

 provide that kind of material for instruction on a large 

 ■scale. Of course no doubt it is an excellent thing in 

 itself, but it is not a purpose of the Museum so far as I 

 apprehend it. 



1158. (Mr. God man.) I do not quite understand 



■ wliether you think if the amalgamation took place and 

 the main botanlical collection went to Kew, it would be 



■ ■desirable to keep no collection at ail, or whether you 

 would prefer having a representative collection, a smaller 

 one, for reference ? — For myself, I should think it would 



: not be desirable to maintain any botanical collection under 

 those cireumstanees, if the main collection were removed 

 to Kew. It would not be de'Sirable to maintain any collec- 

 tion at Cromwell Road of tlie nature of a reference or 



■ systematiic collection. I do not see whose purpose it 

 would serve. But that is a different question from keep- 

 ing a certain number of cases exhibiting the general forms 

 of the vegetable kingdom. That would be a matter of 



■very small expense. 



1159. Such as you have in the gaHe>ry now? — Yes, I 

 "think that; is a question. 



1160. {Sir John Kirk.) "Would you be in favour of 

 retaining the iBr-tisli floral plants in Cromwell Road ? — 

 Which part of the British flora ? 



1161. I ibftlieve there is a large collection of British 

 •plants there? — There is a series which are set out on 



movable frames for the pitblic. and there is also a collec- 

 " tion which is in the herbarium ; which do you refer to ? 



1162. I refer to both? — ^I should say I shonJd leave 

 those which are set out in frames for the pu'blic, but those 

 which form part of the herbarium I should not'. My 

 opinion is that on the supposition that the scientific col- 

 lections, the consudtative collections, were moved to Kew, 



' they should be entirely moved to Kew, or vice versa. 



1163. Would the fact of the living plants in the gar- 

 dens at Kew (influence you in the position in which the 

 united herbarium would be kept, so as to have the living 

 and the dried plants at hand?^I tliink what would in- 

 fluence me as to the choice of the two places or institutions 

 which should have the great botanical collection, would 

 be the possibility of making a reallv great botanical in- 



■ stibuttion. Thalb can only be done — I may say practically 

 has been done — at Kew, iby ha-ving gardens, greenhouses, 

 herbarium, and museum all in one institution. It seems 

 to me that it is almost inevitable tliat if there is to be 

 only one great collection it must be at Kew on account 

 of the existing oTganisation and the great develop-ment 

 which botanical study and means of study of all kinds 

 ■have taken at Keiw. 



1164_. (Mr. Seymour.) Any amalgamation of the two 

 herbaria would be a very costJy affair, I suppose? — I 

 thini it would involve building, and that would be costly. 



1165. Tou think that that would be the main cost, a 

 Duilding say at Kew, to accommodate a herbarium now 

 -at Cromwell Road?— Yes, I should think that would be 

 the anain cost. 



3499.. 



1165. Do you thinlc, in the interests of science, the J'rof. E. R. 

 amalgamation of the two is a desirable object, or would Lankestcr, 

 you prefer to see things left as they are? — I should say ll.d., f.r.s. 



that if science could draw to any extent on the public 



exchequer for its roquirement-s, or even for lits fanoies, it -8 Nov. 1900. 



would be desirable to leave things as they are, but as ^=^- 



])robal)ly the taxpaj-erand those who look after his 

 money are not. willing to exjjcnd money unnecessarily, we 

 must have one botanic,-il in.stitution instead of two. There 

 are other subjects, as I nientioncd jusfc now, which are 

 not provided for, namely, stratigraphical geology and 

 anthro'jTOilloigy. AVhilst these, and jiossibly other things, 

 are not provided foi-, I do not thinlc it is reasonable for 

 scientiflc men to propose to 'maintain two botanical in- 

 stitutions when there ds nob even one foe some other 

 subjects. 



1167. Do you consider that for those who examine fossil 

 plants at Cromwell Road it would be necessary to retain 

 a herbarium for them to consult? — I do not. 



1168. Not at all ?— No. 



1169. (Chairman.) You say stratigraphical geology is 

 not provided for ; is it not provided for in the Museum 

 at Jermyn Street ? — It is provided for a very minute 

 fragment of the surface of the globe ; not even for the 

 British Isles, but only Great Britain. 



1170. (Professor Balfovr.) Horlddng your -views of the 

 proper function of the Brittsh Muaeinn, and your views 

 of the importance of this amalgamation, I gather that 

 if any change was made you would like to see somethmg 

 like the following, namely, that there should be a popular 

 exhibition at Cromwell Road for the edification of tht 

 people ; then that you would carry all research material, 

 that is to say the hei'barium, to Kew. You wourld no;; 

 provide for education, in the narrow^ sense of tlie woird, 

 at all, at Cromwell Road, nor at Kew, 'but you would 

 leave that to be provided by the different teachers in 

 London? — That is very distinctly my vie^w. I think cer- 

 tain institutions of the nature of the Departments at the 

 Natural History ]\Iuseum and the Hoyal Gairdens at Kew 

 are maintained, and regarded by scientific men as being 

 maintained, for the purpose of research and in- 

 vestigation, for the purpose of gaining a complete know- 

 ledge of all the forms and all the material of naturai 

 histo'ry on the face of the gdobe, for the benefit of 

 searchers into science, and for the benefit of the public 

 service, whatever it might be. Those institutions have 

 a very costly and very difficult work to carry through, 

 the complete investigation of the natural history of the 

 globe. You may also have an exhibition to the public 

 to interest them in w'hat is going on, and to give them a 

 certain kind of gratification in the undertaking. But 

 purely educational, pedagogic teachiiiig, preparing for 

 examinations, and so on, it seems to me should be kept 

 entirely apart from suoli inistitutions, since from its very 

 nature, its somewhat disturbing nature, it tends to 

 destroy the other work. Its demands are apt to becoonp 

 veiy aggressive, and it should be left, and is frequently 

 left, 'to its own special institutions. A university with 

 its museum carries on that kind of work ; a college with 

 its museum carries on that kind of work ; and I do not 

 think you can expect, without great danger and incon- 

 venience, to introduce such acade'mical or pedagogic work 

 into the area of these great scientific institutions. 



1171. You have some of it at present in the Botanical 

 Department? — None which has ever been deliberatel.-y 

 recognised. As far as I have been able to gather, it has 

 never been the intention of the Trustees or of the autho- 

 rities of the Museum to provide such teaching. 



1172. Do' you think it is a thing that should be pro- 

 vided by the Government at all ? — I think I should suggest 

 that that is outside the present inquiry. 



1173. What I was going to ask you was, you have on 

 the opposite side of the road the Royal College of 

 Science, at which Professor Farmer, the botanical teacher, 

 'has a museum of the nature that you indicate, an educa- 

 tional museum. If tliat education work was not done at 

 CromweB Road Museum do you think it could be done 

 over the way? Would it, in your opinion, be an advan- 

 tage if they had that museum open to the public there 

 for that purpose? — I think it cannot be said it is done 

 or ever has been done, or contemplated to be done, at 

 Cromwell Road in the Natural History Museum. In my 

 opinion it is the 'business of the Government, if it runs 

 the Royal CoJlege of Science, to provide it with all the 

 necessary appliances for teaching the different branches 

 of science to its students. Therefore, I should 

 expect and suppose they would have a botanical museum 

 for that purpose. I know that in the case of zoology 

 they have an adequate museum at the Royal College of 



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