54 



DEPARTMENTAL COMMITTEE ON BOTANICAL WORK : 



Mr. W. B. ■would be the better one 1 It has been suggested to us 



Hemsley, that there are three -n-ays in which the amalgamation could 



F.E.S. take place : (1) That the general herbarium at the British 



Museum should be placed in a building by itself con- 



29 Nov. 1900, tiguous to your ow-n herbarium ; (2) that the tacorporation 

 might be complete, sheet by sheet ; and (3) that the two 

 herbaria might be housed in the same building, but that 

 the cabinets should be kept distinct — that is to say, that 

 the cabinets containing alliexl groups should be placed side 

 by side, without going so far as to incorporate the actual 

 sheets? — It would be impossible under the present ar- 

 rangements to incorporate them ; the sizes are clifFerent, 

 and I think it would be a great pity to cut down the his- 

 torical sheets of the British Museum to our size at Kew. 

 Our sheets at Kew are smaller than the British Museum. 

 I think if they were all brought to the same place you 

 would have to keep them in separate cabinets. There 

 might be a considerable reduction by eliminating the 

 duplicates. 



1216. But supposing amalgamation were to take place, 

 you are distinctly in favour of the third mode of amalaga- 

 tion by cabinets? — I think it would be a great piiry 

 to cut the sheets down — ^that is to say, to reduce the 

 British Museum to the size at Kew. 



1217. You are distinctly opposed to a complete incor- 

 poration sheet by sheet ? — ^Yes. 



1218. But you are of opinion that the purposes of the 

 amalgamation, the scientific results of the amalgamation, 

 could be secured simply by having cabinets side by side 

 containing allied groups ? — I do not know about side by 

 side ; I think there would have to be separate depart- 

 ments, as it were. I think we should have to keep the 

 Kew collection as it is, and the other in another part, per- 

 haps, of the same building. 



1219. Then you are in favour of what I stated to be the 

 second mode suggested, namely: that the herbaria should 

 be side by side, so that an observer could pass readily 

 from one to the other? — ^Yes, but I am not in favour of 

 ■cutting down the British Museum collection to the size of 

 Kew and incorporating them throughout with the Kew 

 collection. 



1220. But such an amalgamation in the form which you 

 approve you think would not only be a very great advan- 

 tage to botanical science in general, but an actual advan- 

 ta^re to Kew? — No doubt. As you are aware, the col- 

 lectors, as a matter of fact, were Kew collectors, but 

 there was no place to put the dried specimens, and so 

 wMle the seeds and living plants oame to Kew, the 

 ■dried specimens went to Sir Joseph Banks's herbarium. 



1221. I understand from the memorandum which has 

 been sent to us by the Director that you are at present 

 ■extremely overcrowded in the Herbarium, and that the 

 want of additional room is most urgent? — Yes. 



1222. {Mr. Godman.) There was another suggestion 

 made, and that was to back the sheets, to bring the Kew 

 sheets, which are smaller than those of the British 

 Museum, to exactly the same size by pasting them on 

 another sized sheet. Would that be practicable?— I 

 think not, because the size of the Kew herbarium is 

 about three times that cfx the British Museum, Bpeaking 

 of the number of sheets. 



1223. Would it be a. very great labouT? — Yes ; and I 

 do not see the advantage of it. 



1224. Then they could be incorporated ? — Why should 

 we bring our size up to the other? I think it would be 

 much batter to keep them separate. Supposing there was 

 an amalgamation of the two collections, we could gradu- 

 ally reduce the size of the herbarium by reducing it to the 

 types of the old collections, taking out all the modem 

 ones which we already possess at Kew, but keep the 

 old ones 'in the cabinets they have, or cabinets of the 

 same size. I do not think it would be desirable to make 

 up or cut down. 



1225. (Sir John. Kirk.) Do I understand that the fruits 

 raid bulkier specimens of the Banksian collection are now 

 at Kew? — No. At the time Of tHese expeditions the 

 seeds and the living plants went to Kew, and the 

 dried plants went to Sir Joseph Banks. His idea was 

 ihat they should form part of the, Kew collection, but 

 that fell' through. They actually commenced making 

 a library at Hanover House, and that fell through. 



1226. What has become of those seeds and bulkier 

 ■ p-pecimens ? — I mean seeds that were actually sown and 



plants grown from them. I do not mean museum speci- 

 mens, but living specimens. 



1227. You estimate that the bulk lof the British Museum 

 is about one-third of yours ? — Something like that 1 should 

 think. 



1228. So that if they were united the building would , 

 have to be one-third more than the Kew building now ia 

 to take in the British Museum specimens ? — ^It would 

 have to be considerably more than that, because it is 

 a growing thing. 



1229. It is a growing thing? — Any herbarium is a 

 growing thing. 



1230. But would you propose to increase the British 

 Mubtum cnlleolion if it were transferred to Kew ? — That 

 would then form a portion of our collection, and I 

 should propose taking out the duplicates they have olf 

 lAod'Brn collections, which are aln.-ady represented sX 

 Kew, and keeping historical colle-;tions on paper the 

 size they are on now, continuing the collection on the 

 Kew size. 



1231. Do you prefer the Kew size? — ■Decidedly, con- 

 sidering that we have such a very largo collection 

 already of that size. I may say we have uro sizes. We 

 have for some plants, Cycads and a few other things, 

 a small nianber of cabinets O'f nearly double the size 

 of the ordinary cabinet ; which are about 16in. by 

 lO^in., and that is sufficient for all ordinary purposes. 



1232. {Chairman.) Might I just interpose one mo- 

 ment '^ It is stated to us that with regard to the num- 

 ber of specimens, tbe number at Kew is over 2,000,000, 

 and the number at the British Museum is 1,853,293, 

 so that your speaking of about one-third is hardly 

 accarate. The British Museum numbers include mu- 

 seum specimens, and we must add to Kew the 20,000 

 museum specimens yon have, so that we have 2,020,000 

 S'pecimens at Kew, and 1,800,000 odd specimens at the 

 British Museum ? — ^I have not the figures before me. 



1233. Those are the figures which have been sent to 

 us resoect'vely from the Director of Kew Gardens and 

 from the British Museum 



1234. {Sir John KirJc.) I think the British Museum 

 counted as a specimen each individual plant on a sheet. 

 AVhen you speak of specimen do you mean one plant or 

 a number of speciinens on a sheet? — I consider a speci- 

 men includes all that belong to one label. 



1235. However manv there mav be ? — Yes. 



1236. (Professor Balfour.) You might have a dozen or 

 twenty? — Quite so. 



1237. (Chairman.) We put that question to Mr. 

 MiTTray, and I fancy the answer was in the negative ? — • 

 The statement handed in by the Director was prepared 

 by me under his direction. I do not carry the figures 

 in my mind, but I have no doubt as to their substantial 

 accuracy. 



1238. (Chairman.) I am quoting now from the state- 

 ment handed in by the Director, but I do not think we 

 need go into that any further? — I think not. 



1239. (Sir John Kirk.) Are you satisfied with the 

 building at present as a fire-proof building for the safe' 

 keeping of the plants? — ^It is not a fire-proof building. 



1240. Is there danger now? — ^Yes. I had an anxious 

 time about it. because my residence was next to it until 

 about two years ago, and I suggested, and the Director 

 took up the suggestion, that they should pull down 

 that part of the residence close to tlie Heibarium. We 

 were very close to it, and you can never tell what is 

 goinsr to happen in a house with servants and that sort 

 of thing, and I was very anxious. We were within two 

 yards of the Herbarium, but now they have pulled 

 down a portion and the other part is kept as a store- 

 house. 



1241. (Mr. Seymour.) You said, I think, you were very 

 crowded in the herbarium, and that you must have fresh 

 accommodation ? — It is absolutely necessary. 



1242. Does that apply also to the museum in the gar- 

 dens, as well as the Herbarium building? — I cannot 

 speak of that. The museums are not under my control. 



1243. In any case, whatever happens, whether there is 

 amalgamation or whether there is not, fresh buildings are 

 absolutely necessary at Kew ? — ^Yes ; no doubt there must • 

 be some extension. 



1244. (Professor Balfour.) Do you find_your work is 

 very much hampered by want of room in the Herbarium? 

 — It'is. 



1245. So that even thouEch there were no additions of 

 specimens from Cromweil Road you would require addi- 

 tional room? — Yes, very shortly. 



1246. (Mr. Spring Bice.) I did not quite understand 

 what you said you could do, if the collections were brought 

 under one roof, in the way of reducing the numbers which 

 might be regarded as duplicates ? — ^At the British Museum 



