MINUTES OF EVIDENCE 



they have many of the same recent collections as we 

 have, and tiiose could be eliminated. 



1247. Looking at the two as a whole, is there a con- 

 siderable amount of work which might, be done in lliat 

 direction ? — Yes, a considerable amount of reduction iro'ght 

 be made. 



1248. You were speaking of the fact that the prosi;nt 

 Herbarium is not fireproof, but have you not very strict 

 rujies to guard against any risk of fire from within ? — 

 Yes. We have no tires ; the only thing we have is a 

 spirit lamp in my room to boil specimens for examination. 



1249. So that tliere is no risk of fire from within ; is 

 there any practical risk from witliout? — No. As I ex- 

 plained just now the Director had a portion of my old 

 residence pulled down that was contiguous to the place. 



1250. The building is quite isolated now ? — Yes. 



1251. So that in a practical sense you would not say 

 there is any serious immediate risk ? — -No, I would not. 



1252. (Chairman.) I do. not know whether you feel 

 able to answer this question — you will tell me if yott do 

 not ; are you consulted in the purchase of collections 

 offei'ed to Kew ? — Yes. I usually suggest them to the 

 Director and he consults me on the point. 



1253. Collections are sometimes offered to you and to 

 the British Museum, and a certain competition may take 

 place between the two with regard to the purchase ? — I 

 do not know with regard to the purchase of collections. 



1254. But you do purchase collection.?, do you not? — ■ 

 Yes ; we purchase some, and naturally there is in a sense 

 competition, but it is more especially with regard to 

 collections presented by 'travellers, and that sort of thing, 

 that the question of competition comes in. 



t 1255. The competition then in the purchase of collec- 

 tions is insignificant ? — Yes. I think you might keep that 

 out of the question altogether. 



1256. It does notiead to any unneoessary expense, does 

 it? The collections are not raised in value by your com- 

 peting, are they? — Tliere are certain collections which we 

 find it necessary to have, and I daresay they may have 

 the same at the Museum ; but the collections in which 

 ^ there is any competition are those collections made by 

 expeditions and travellers. 



1257. {I'rofcssor Balfour.) I want to make perfectly j/,- ]f\ /; 

 clear this question of duplicates. I suppose what you Ifiiiis/<:i/, 

 mean by duplicates is this, that tidcing a named and num- k.u.s. 



bered collection like Bourgeau's, or those sets that 



have been sent out by Sintenis or Sielie, the British -9 Nov. 1900. 



Museum buys a set also as well as Kew? — Yes, at 



exactly the same price. 



1258. If there was an amalgamation you could prac- 

 tically get rid of one of these sets ? — Yes. 



1259. There must be a very large proportion of sets 

 like that, and those are the sets that would be truly 

 duplicate? — The old classical collections, Banksian speci- 

 mens, and so on, you would not get rid of, even if the 

 plants were the same as those yoti had, because of their 

 historical value, and because you may have some notes 

 upon them by a botanist which may be valuable. 



1260. (Mr. Darwin.) I have heard it suggested that 

 when a collector is starting on an expedition the fact that 

 there are two institutions, one at Cromwell Road and one 

 at Kew, gives such collector rather a power over those 

 institutions, that he can play off one against the other 

 and make terms he could not otherwise make. Do you 

 think 'there is anything in that ? — I do not think so. Our 

 terms at Kew are that if they present their collections 

 we name them, furnish the donor with a list, and so on. 



1261. A collector would never want any other terms 

 tiisn that, you think ? — If there are more sets than we 

 want we perhaps might undertake to return them to tho 

 collector, or to distribnte them to other botanical estab- 

 lishments, according to his wishes. As a matter of fact 

 the most valuable coUeetions we get are those which are 

 presented by travellers. 



1252. Have you, as a matter ot fact, found any difficulty 

 of that sort — the fact of there being twO' institutions giving 

 as it were a collector power over them ?— "No. So fai" .'iS 

 my experience goes, a great many are sent to Tew, because 

 the Colonial floras and the British Indian fleas have 

 been worked out at Kew, thus there are greater ir.''ni- 

 ties and they get the results so much easier ; I mean 

 on account of the types of all these floras being at Kew. 



1263. (Mr. Godman.) You spoke about the increase of 

 the collection ; can you give us any idea of the rate at 

 which the collection is now increasing — 1 per cent, or any 

 other figure ? — I am afraid I cannot tell you that. 



Sir WiLLiAsi Ttj'ener Thiselton-Dyee, »K.C.M.G.. F.R.S., Director of the Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew, 



. - called ; and examined. 



1264. {Chairman.) You are at present the Director of 

 the Royal Gardens, Kew, and have been so since the 

 year 1885, I think ?— Yes. 



?.265. You have been so good as to draw up for us a 

 very valuable niemorandtim in reply to questions which 

 were addressed to you. You are willing, I suppose, that 

 that memorandum should be put in as evidence ? — ^Cer- 

 tainly. The circumstances of that memorandum were 

 these. The questions were transmitted to me by the 

 First Commissioner with the desire that I would supply 

 the Committee with the information asked for, and I 

 have done that to the best of my abilit.y. I found 

 considerable difficulty in doing it, and I dare say the 

 Committee have observed that my statement is perhaps 

 redundant in some particulars, and not complete in 

 others. 



The following is the list of questions referred to, with 

 the answers of the witness appended : — 



COMMITTEE APPOINTED 

 BY Tira 

 LORDS COMMISSIONERS OF HER MAJESTY'S 

 TREASURY. 



"To consider the. present arrangements under which 

 botanical work is done and collections maintained 

 hj the Trtistees of the British Museum and under 

 ■the First Commissioner of Works at Kew, re- 

 spectively ; and to report wlhat changes (if any) in 

 tiiose arrangements are necessary or desirable in 

 order to avoid duplication of work and collections 

 at the two Institutions." 



The information desired by the Committee may be 

 conveniently arranged under the following heads : — 



I. A general statement of the nature and extent of the 

 collections under your charge within the scope of 

 the present enquiry. 



This slbatement wiU na;turaUy distinguish be- 



tween different kinds, general, special, etc., 

 of collections. It will also be desirable to 

 distinguish between : — 



(a) Dried plants. 



(b) Othex preparations, either (1) Dry, in 

 bottles or boxes; (2) In preservative 

 fluid ; or (3) Microscope slides. 



and to give a rough or approximate estimate 

 of the extent or number of each. 



H. The duties of the Keeper and of his chief sub- 

 ordinates. 



III. The uses to which the collections are applied. 



In this it will be desirable to distinguish 

 ibetween : — 



(1) Popular instructions. 



(2) Assistance given to students, i.e., 



educational use. 



(3) Assistance to research, given either to 

 home or foreign investigators. 



(4) Government requisitions. 



special attention being given to the; third 

 and fourth sub-headings. 



lY. The main several sources from which accessions 

 are derived. 



This should irdioate in their relative propor- 

 tions the accessions derived by : — 



(a) Purchase. ,^ 



(b) Exchange. 



(c) Gift. 



V. The oliief additions or alterations which have been 

 made in your collections since 1875, the date of the 

 last retport of the Royal Commission on Science 

 (Devonshire Commission). 



Sh- TV. T. 

 Thistelton- 



Dyer, 

 K.C.M.G., 



F.U.S. 



